Bronx area - Fordham/Kingsbridge (New York, Webster: low income, rent, violent crime)
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Hustla I really don't know what your agenda is - While there are certainly parts of Fordham/Bedford that arent great - it is far safer then it was, is far safer then many, many places in NYC and other cities and is not the crime infested rat hole you are trying to portray.
By way of example YTD their have been 6 homicides in 2007 in the 52nd Precinct which is down 25% from last yr (their were 13 homicides all of 2006); now that is far too many but in a population of 141,000, it really isnt too bad at all. And if you look at the Bronx as a whole - YTD (6/24/07) there were 53 Homicides which works out to be about 7.6 Homicides per 100,000 which puts it on par with Omaha Nebraska.
I purposely only cite the homicide statistics b/c even though other crime categories put the Bronx in an even better light, I already know that you dismiss all crime statistics as being fudged. Its kinda tough to hide a dead body or reclassify it as a misdemeanor.
The 52nd precinct years during the crack era was a complete dump south of Bedford Park Blvd. It was so so north to Moshulo. Good and bad blocks. These days there are lots of shootings and drive-bys far up as Van Courtlant. I still feel the worst of it is south of Bedford Park Blvd, but the areas north of that are declining, quickly.
The demographics have changed. I won't mention race since on this site that makes me a racist. However the middle class population has almost disappeared from this area. A very large amount of low income people have moved in. This has lowered quality of life, and brought crime. Poverty related crimes. Drug dealing, which leads to addicts, which leads to robberies, shootings, killings north of Bedford Park Blvd.
Anyway the area has serious issues with crime, it has changed a lot.
This is the norm in that area these days:
[quote]Spate of Kingsbridge Road attacks leave musician dead, 5 hospitalized
BY JESS WISLOSKI and ALISON GENDAR
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS
Wednesday, June 27th 2007, 4:00 AM
Print Email Suggest a Story
A marauding gang has terrorized a Bronx street for the past month, killing one man and sending five more to the hospital.
As many as 10 attackers - young men in their 20s - surround their prey and beat them, sometimes with a sharp instrument or knife, cops said.
Can you tell me what are the signs of decline in Throggs Neck? Because I sure don't see it. And I sure don't see overpopulation.
Then you have never been to Throgs Neck. Traditionally the area was a lower density part of the city. It was made up of mostly single family homes. These days every space available has housing. Not single family homes but 2-3 families. The local population has tried to counter that, but the real estate people just keep on trying to sneak by. More people has lead to more trash, more graffiti, more filth. More cars, more pollution, less parking. Quality of life has gone down. In terms of crime, a lot of these units in multifamily homes are being rented to lower income families. Bringing low income problems to certain blocks in Throgs Neck.
Last edited by Keeper; 12-09-2007 at 08:40 AM..
Reason: copyrighted material
I wish you the best of luck in your new apartment... be careful if you wonder down the hill to Bainbridge & Briggs, there used to be some really bad dudes hanging back there.
Hustla - posting a couple of crime stories (btw I wouldnt consider Kingsbridge between Jerome and Morris to be Bedford Park anyway) is even less meaningful then purportedly fudged crime statistics. I am in no way saying the area is crime free or nirvana but your posts make it sound like the area is slightly better then '77 south Bronx or the depths of the failed Dinkins Administration.
You can claim that the middle class have left all you want, but someone is paying 500,000 for homes there and rents north of $1000 a mo for a 1br - so unless Welfare benefits have gotten much better then I realize, the majority of the people living there may not look like the 'middle-class' of 1960 but they have the incomes of modern day middle-class.
Here are some rental listings to support what I am saying:
----By Owner------Last Apt left in this Brand new building.------- (http://newyork.craigslist.org/brx/abo/361922452.html - broken link)
Hustla - posting a couple of crime stories (btw I wouldnt consider Kingsbridge between Jerome and Morris to be Bedford Park anyway) is even less meaningful then purportedly fudged crime statistics. I am in no way saying the area is crime free or nirvana but your posts make it sound like the area is slightly better then '77 south Bronx or the depths of the failed Dinkins Administration.
You can claim that the middle class have left all you want, but someone is paying 500,000 for homes there and rents north of $1000 a mo for a 1br - so unless Welfare benefits have gotten much better then I realize, the majority of the people living there may not look like the 'middle-class' of 1960 but they have the incomes of modern day middle-class.
Here are some rental listings to support what I am saying:
----By Owner------Last Apt left in this Brand new building.------- (http://newyork.craigslist.org/brx/abo/361922452.html - broken link)
and an interesting article from the Real Deal (real estate website):
http://bedfordparkapartments.com/Hood/The Real Deal - Bronx's Bedford Park hidden in plain view.pdf (broken link)
That doesn't prove anything to me. A couple of small apartment shots? Two pictures, one of new construction, another or a recently rehabilitated pair of buildings.
Look, when I was a kid I used to go to the playgrounds in Fordham-Bedford when I visited my aunt. It was a different from the areas south of Fordham Road. Yes it had it's problems, but it was different. Area was borderline. North of Bedford Park Blvd was nice neighborhoods.
By the time I was a teen, the same playgrounds I played in were littered with crack viles, syringes, and bums. Valentine, Decatur, Bainbridge were drug infested. This was the height of the crack era. When NYC murders were at their peak.
I go to the area every once and a while now. I know many people who live there. The last time I hung out in the area at night a man was stabbed to death in front of my friends building. There are borded up houses on my friends block, and drug dealers in front of every building. Shootings, stabbings, jumpings are an everyday thing in the neighborhood.
It is not the area it once was years ago. It is not middle class it's a low income still declineing area. Although Fordham-Bedford has calmed down some since the crack era, the areas north of Bedford Park, once nice neighborhoods are becoming dumps. And Fordham-Bedford is still terrible. Area has never been the same since crack hit and the change in income demographics.
And no one I know in that neighborhood payed $500,000 for a home, or $1,000 a month for a one bedroom.
I go to the area every once and a while now. I know many people who live there. The last time I hung out in the area at night a man was stabbed to death in front of my friends building. There are borded up houses on my friends block, and drug dealers in front of every building. Shootings, stabbings, jumpings are an everyday thing in the neighborhood.
That is patently false, I mean of course those things occur (more then in many other neighborhoods but less then many others) - other then your overblown anecdotes, please provide some evidence of this daily mahem that you describe - unless of course not only are the police conspiring to hide crime, but so are the local community groups, the news media and every politician.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hustla718
It is not the area it once was years ago. It is not middle class it's a low income still declineing area. Although Fordham-Bedford has calmed down some since the crack era, the areas north of Bedford Park, once nice neighborhoods are becoming dumps. And Fordham-Bedford is still terrible. Area has never been the same since crack hit and the change in income demographics.
Actually employment is up in the Bronx (unemployment is at 6% - more or less the city rate), property values are strong and income is rising faster (relatively) in the Bronx then in any other part of NYC:
And investment is at an all time high. Are you aware that Arcadia Realty Trust is re-developing One Fordam Place into a mixed-use retail and office complex with Class A office space.
Are you aware that Blackrock Realty and SG2 Advisors (2 huge institutional investors) just bought 4,000 apartments for over $300M in the West Bronx including many of the areas like Fordham that you are insisting are declining?
And no one I know in that neighborhood payed $500,000 for a home, or $1,000 a month for a one bedroom.
Well then clearly you dont know the people living in the area now do you?
Let me see if I get your position - the police are lying about crime statistics, the city is lying about employment statistics, the press is lying about income statistics, landlords and realtors are listing properties at prices they can't possibly get and hedge funds and real estate trusts are morons b/c you are the only person who really knows whats going on in the Bronx?
Do I have that right?
Last edited by fsrg; 06-28-2007 at 06:51 PM..
Reason: mistake
Sunset Park does not have that kind of housing. Area is pretty shady as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsrg
That is patently false, I mean of course those things occur (more then in many other neighborhoods but less then many others) - other then your overblown anecdotes, please provide some evidence of this daily mahem that you describe - unless of course not only are the police conspiring to hide crime, but so are the local community groups, the news media and every politician.
Actually employment is up in the Bronx (unemployment is at 6% - more or less the city rate), property values are strong and income is rising faster (relatively) in the Bronx then in any other part of NYC:
And investment is at an all time high. Are you aware that Arcadia Realty Trust is re-developing One Fordam Place into a mixed-use retail and office complex with Class A office space.
Are you aware that Blackrock Realty and SG2 Advisors (2 huge institutional investors) just bought 4,000 apartments for over $300M in the West Bronx including many of the areas like Fordham that you are insisting are declining?
Well then clearly you dont know the people living in the area now do you?
Let me see if I get your position - the police are lying about crime statistics, the city is lying about employment statistics, the press is lying about income statistics, landlords and realtors are listing properties at prices they can't possibly get and hedge funds and real estate trusts are morons b/c you are the only person who really knows whats going on in the Bronx?
Do I have that right?
I just posted a link to a story about 6 violent assualts on a single block. It took someone to get killed to make the news. This is an everyday occurance in that area.
Income going up in the Bronx you say. You do realize income goes up everywhere as time passes. Now is it keeping up with the cost of living. NO WAY. Rising employment rates, just ask people where they work. How much they are paid.
As for those apartments. Sorry but all the people I know in that neighborhood pay no where near that much. Rent is going up but for that much, what's the point of living there?
Belive whatever you want. Have you ever even been there?
I just posted a link to a story about 6 violent assualts on a single block. It took someone to get killed to make the news. This is an everyday occurance in that area.
Obviously not, otherwise there would be a story in the paper about it every day. FYI they made arrests on the case already - and that isnt Bedford Park.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hustla718
Income going up in the Bronx you say. You do realize income goes up everywhere as time passes. Now is it keeping up with the cost of living.
I didnt say incomes were going up - The U.S. Commerce Department said it - in fact they said that total income growth was 24% from 2000-2005 which was 50% higher then the overall city rate, and far higher then inflation. Please tell us what 'agenda' the Federal Government has in lying with these statistics - for the Bronx. Did you even RTFA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hustla718
NO WAY. Rising employment rates, just ask people where they work. How much they are paid.
So again the City, State and Federal Government are all lying about employment numbers and your anecdotal evidence apparently gathered on infrequent trips to the area are reliable?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hustla718
As for those apartments. Sorry but all the people I know in that neighborhood pay no where near that much. Rent is going up but for that much, what's the point of living there?
Maybe your friends don't pay that much, but clearly someone is and clearly that is where the market is right now - and those prices can only be supported by 'middle-class' incomes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hustla718
Belive whatever you want. Have you ever even been there?
Daily - and you?
We can go on like this forever, I think it is clear to anyone reading this thread (if anyone made it this far) that you have an agenda and no facts will sway you. But I really am curious why are you so adament in insisting that these areas in the Bronx are so horrendous? Did you sell some Real Estate and now resent the price appreciation? Why do you insist so strongly when every objective measure says you are WRONG.
And no one I know in that neighborhood payed $500,000 for a home, or $1,000 a month for a one bedroom.
Actually our next door neighbor paid 550,000 for a house just like ours, but it needed a gut rehab. I'm tired of arguing with Hustla, but I'm glad that others are standing up for the neighborhood. There is a mix of incomes and races in Bedford Park, and we've met many great people who care about where they live and want to make it better. Our block has improved in concrete, obvious ways since we moved there. It's not perfect, but its nothing like Hustla describes.
I don't think that Hustla would like to see this part of the Bronx, or the others he complains about improve--maybe because it would prove he is wrong or maybe because he has one foot already out of the city, and needs to feel he made the right decision.
Obviously not, otherwise there would be a story in the paper about it every day. FYI they made arrests on the case already - and that isnt Bedford Park.
Crime in Midtown is reported promptly and exhaustively. Crime in the outer boros, especially The Bronx, often times do not make the papers.
Take a look at this website throughout the day and tell me which area's incidents get the most press.
Murders in the Bronx may show up in The Post's Police Blotter, but a rape in Midtown will be on the first ten pages. It's always been this way.
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