LIRR and why conductors as opposed to fare machines (Babylon: insurance, bill)

[bigjretrac]

Originally Posted by Montgomery Brewster II

The idea being bandied about was to overhaul the entire system to facilitate this option. As someone hre already mentioned, if the RR was being designed today it would be designed accordingly. I do think that if done in phases, they could retrofit the existing model to operate without ticket handlers. It would take years to complete, and decades to see any return on the investment, but it does demonstrate forward thinking...

In today's world, if you want to cut costs and improve infrastructure, you have to improvise.

More like years to plan, and decades to complete! The LIRR is a large system.

[bigjretrac]

Originally Posted by beachcomber11

Personal interaction with a person with a hole punch (which is utterly ridiculous) or swipe card.
Swipe cards clearly there are tremendous start up costs, however, in the long run swipe card would not allow lost fares not to mention ever increasing salary and pension costs.
Maybe Babylon line is the starting point given the elevated platforms, perhaps when the Grand Central Station line opens in 2016 this will come to fruition.

Before we go any further, your premise is that conductors make $239k, which Jetties called into question, and you never answered.

Again, you can't do only one line. If you tried to it the Babylon line, it'd have to end at Valley Stream. What happens when people want to connect outside of a branch? (Ie- somebody going from Merrick to Atlantic Terminal). This would mean that the only service the Babylon Branch could offer service along Sunrise Highway with no stops in Queens and terminate at some far off, gated terminal in Penn Station. Essentially, you're only working at a fraction of the service.

If something goes wrong at the Amtrak tunnels, which happens a lot, how can they divert the train without risking losing fares? Remember, if you try to swipe in later on in the day without having swiped out first, you'll get an error message which in turn requires a staff person to come and fix (similar thing happened to me in DC).

Again, I really do agree that swipe cards are the optimal model to follow, but it costs way too much and would take decades to recoup the costs. Additionally, it needs to be all or nothing.

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by beachcomber11

when a LIRR conductor as per NYT makes $239K. What I've read the recently approved fare increase funds pensions and salaries.

Reforms in the MTA are painfully slow if at all. Would seem to me that in the year 2013 the thought of a person punching paper tickets is tantamount to a human standing at a table instead of vending machine.

Would refitting the LIRR platforms be difficult, probably, in the long run,however,would the refit capture lost fares undoubtedly.

No Conductor in the US except maybe a 4th generation conductor near retirement males 239k....there are Engineers who make that but its on private Railroads out west. The Highest Railroad Salary in the World is in Australia on the outback Freight lines at 250k... Theres no place in the world where gates are used on the platforms....everything is designed for free flowing...

[Montgomery Brewster II]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

No Conductor in the US except maybe a 4th generation conductor near retirement males 239k....there are Engineers who make that but its on private Railroads out west. The Highest Railroad Salary in the World is in Australia on the outback Freight lines at 250k... Theres no place in the world where gates are used on the platforms....everything is designed for free flowing...

You are THE man on this topic.

Could you explain the RR pension to me (as relates to SS deduction from pay)?

Thanks in advance. I was going to interview for the Long Island gravy train I mean Railroad this summer but stayed put at my current job.

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by Montgomery Brewster II

You are THE man on this topic.

Could you explain the RR pension to me (as relates to SS deduction from pay)?

Thanks in advance. I was going to interview for the Long Island gravy train I mean Railroad this summer but stayed put at my current job.

I don't about Pensions.... Private RR's have bigger Pensions then Public...after they reformed the pay and some of the Pension system a few years ago to higher gravy earners went to Private.

[Montgomery Brewster II]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

I don't about Pensions.... Private RR's have bigger Pensions then Public...after they reformed the pay and some of the Pension system a few years ago to higher gravy earners went to Private.

I am not quite sure I understand your response.?

The Federal Railroad Pension as I understand it is substituted for Social INsecurity. You are saying that with your seemingly vast knowledge of how the RR system operates, you don't understand this?

[Amisi]

Originally Posted by bigjretrac

The money we spend to demolish and rebuild all the LIRR stations to raise them above ground or sink them below ground (not to mention the tracks between the stations) would negate any savings of not having conductors. Let's also not forget the NIMBYs.

On a line like the Babylon line, this could work, but good luck doing that to the Ronkonkoma line.



I think what the OP is advocating is the model the DC Metro uses. You have to swipe in and swipe out-- you're then charged on the distance you traveled. For instance, I go to the Mineola train station, and swipe my card to enter the station, I then board my train. Upon reaching Penn Station, I get off and swipe again through an exit turnstile. At that point, my card is debited for traveling from fare zone 4 to fare zone 1.

Like I said, if the LIRR were to be built today, this model would make so much more sense. But it's just not feasible to rebuild the entire system just to get rid of conductors.

Could you picture the insanity during rush hour if they ever implemented this???? You would have people who have no clue what they're doing holding everyone else up (similar to the jerks who use self checkout and don't know how to use it)

[beachcomber11]

I am a 35 year commuter, it has gotten worse if anything. Based upon the predominate postings here 35 years from now they'll still the same.
A 1.7 billion dollar commuter railroad, punching a paper ticket PRICELESS.

[bigjretrac]

Originally Posted by Amisi

Could you picture the insanity during rush hour if they ever implemented this???? You would have people who have no clue what they're doing holding everyone else up (similar to the jerks who use self checkout and don't know how to use it)

I was one of those jerks in DC-- I was leaving the Red line at Union Station, and it took me a second to figure it out (didnt realize I needed my card again, then swiped it the wrong way). Luckily they have several gates so this mitigates it.

What was annoying was when the exit turnstiles at Brookland Avenue malfunctioned. We were all trapped in the station until a staff person just opened the emergency gates to let us out...it literally got to a point when they had to shut off the escalators because there was no more room in the mezzanine for people to come off. Because I never swiped out, I had problems entering the station that evening.

[peconic117]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

No Conductor in the US except maybe a 4th generation conductor near retirement males 239k....there are Engineers who make that but its on private Railroads out west. The Highest Railroad Salary in the World is in Australia on the outback Freight lines at 250k... Theres no place in the world where gates are used on the platforms....everything is designed for free flowing...

They don't make anywhere near 239k but they do make around 6 figures with OT after a few years. If I remember correctly the guy who made 239k was about to retire, worked almost every OT hour for a year to max his pension, and there was some sort of retro pay included as well.