English BA/MBA works for $9.25 at Goodwill and on food stamps (application, applications)
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That is very subjective. If I don't have a penny in my pocket but have an opportunity to get into Columbia Business school, I would be more than happy to take a $100k loan because I know where my career would go with a degree from Columbia as opposed to a MBA from Rutgers or SUNY Buffalo which would cost 1/3 of what Columbia would cost, even though both Rutgers and Buffalo are excellent State schools. One has to do a cost-benefit analysis. Not all debt is bad debt.
The advice on not going into debt was for those who have to go to state schools-typically those who are middle of the road or lower. It doesn't apply if you get into an Ivy League, Stanford, Cal Tech, or similar situation.
In some cases, it doesn't apply if the state school is cream of the crop-UVA, Berkeley, UNC Chapel Hill, etc.
The reality is, most of us don't have the high school record to get into the Ivy League/top tier, or probably the ability to survive there. Yet we aren't doomed to pump gas the rest of our life-you can get a very solid education at a middle-tier state school. But research and publishing with your professors? Man, someone who thinks that happens at the average state school to the average student is living on a whole different planet.
I know two people who earned MBA's and they both earn less than another friend who is nothing but a welder. Unlike the MBA graduates he lives in a low cost of living area so his welding job has given him a huge home paid with cash, new cars and all kinds of toys for his kids, while one of the MBA graduates lives in Miami with his parents and wife. College has become the new HS diploma and corporate America is burdened with big government pushing degrees as the gateway to employment. No wonder the US is doomed to depression.
That's an MBA though. I was just talking about my regular 4 year undergraduate degree.
For graduate schools, yeah, the name/prestige matters more. But most people just get a 4 year undergrad degree, and I think going into debt for a BS/BA is probably a bad idea.
Similar logic applies to undergrad degrees as well. Most corporations recruit undergrad students right from the campus for internship and full time jobs of few selective schools.
I know two people who earned MBA's and they both earn less than another friend who is nothing but a welder. Unlike the MBA graduates he lives in a low cost of living area so his welding job has given him a huge home paid with cash, new cars and all kinds of toys for his kids, while one of the MBA graduates lives in Miami with his parents and wife. College has become the new HS diploma and corporate America is burdened with big government pushing degrees as the gateway to employment. No wonder the US is doomed to depression.
Likewise, I know welders who make garbage for money, and live in some low cost area because never in their dreams could they afford something ncier than a newer doublewide. oh yes, one of them owns their doublewide, but has to pay lot rent.
Also as well, my compay (here in Miami) is full of nicely paid MBA's who many are almost straight out of school, or on the job for just a couple of years. More experienced and senior employees are even better paid, plus the benefits are outstanding including working from home, six weeks vacation, etc. My company even paid for my MBA from UNC.
Just threw this in here because I am tired of hearing all the sterotypical "I know a welder/plumber/electrician/line puller/millwright/etc" and they all seem to make huge money. Sorry, while yes, there are more than a few that do make great money, and much of this comes from them owning their own business, a large amount of them do not make what is considered "great" money, many make middle class wages, and many make lower class wages, and many battle the economic cycles of the economy every seven years (especially new construction). Also, many take years and years to get to a decent salary level.
So while I am all for the trades, I was in the trades myself before the military and my current position, and I grew up around everyone, including my family, who are involved in these trades; they are hardly the guarentee of financial security utopia as so many people make them out to be.
A MBA is only useful when the following conditions are met:
1.) It is from a prestigious school.
2.) You have a good GPA.
3.) You have professional white collar experience.
It helps if you networked with a lot of people and did internships while earning your MBA.
This is very short sighted and not true IMO. I have an MBA from a less than top tier school. It's a real campus and not an online degree, but it has served me very well. yes it helps if you are in a top tier school, but not being in one is not the end of the world. It is what you make of it to a large extent. The same can be said for grades. is it better to have a 4.0? Sure, but after your first job, nobody will even look at GPA, if then. #3 is a bit more complex. Is the MBA useful because you have white collar experience, or is it useful simply because you are more experienced? See the difference?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRdad
Majoring in English = Fruit from the 'Whatever' attitude.
Exactly, this was not necessarily well thought out. If she loves the degree purely for self satisfaction then that's great. But if she chose it to develop a career around, she goofed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERH
You're absolutely correct. The MBA is from University of Phoenix, according to her LinkedIn profile. That degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on, plus she's probably got student loan debt out the wazoo!
Absolutely not true as a blanket statement. Yes it has less prestige that a degree from Columbia. But it isn't worthless. Two equally qualified candidates with one having a UoP MBA, will lean strongly in the MBA's favor for a given job. An advanced degree does show commitment and the ability to juggle adult education with a job (presumably) and all of life's other challenges. Also, while probably not true in her case, many large companies pay for these degrees and it is entirely possible that she would have no debt. Very few people choose these on-line schools without some degree of financial assistance from their employer. That's part of why they are so expensive.
The bottom line in the story is that she has not pushed herself to succeed. For whatever reason she has been unable to find a job in one of the best economies in the country. Microsoft and Amazon alone hire hundreds of people a week, with an MBA almost always being listed as a preference. She probably is thinking too traditionally and narrowly in her job search. She should stop limiting herself and launch a real job hunt. Also, if she's really serious about working in a professional capacity, she needs to search nationwide and be wiling to go anywhere.
Based upon reading Vanessa's story as an excerpt, I'd say that she has 100x the guts and determination that her critics on this forum have. Of course, "blaming the victim" is a blood sport on the Work and Employment forum, which is loaded with ridiculous statements from corporate/human resource drones who really contribute little to the world..
The woman in the story is an idiot, and is the type who thinks by having a degree, a job just comes knocking on her door or falls in her lap. After getting her degree, obviously with no idea what to do after or even why she got it, she then went on to a larger mistake; an MBA from UP.
Why and how did she come to the conclusion she needed an MBA, and it would assist her? This is someone who obviously did not do any research. She made the same mistake again; she thought by haivng an MBA, jobs would knock on her door or fall in her lap.
MBA straight from UG from a top tier school is great, better have some relevant job experience if from anywhere else. And should never get one from one of these UP type schools, or in my opinion, any non-AACSB accredited school.
Based upon reading Vanessa's story as an excerpt, I'd say that she has 100x the guts and determination that her critics on this forum have. Of course, "blaming the victim" is a blood sport on the Work and Employment forum, which is loaded with ridiculous statements from corporate/human resource drones who really contribute little to the world..
Well, if it is not her fault, then it is the fault of who?
She chose her UG, she chose her MBA, no one else made these decisions for her.
As for the "drone" comment, the woman in this story would love to be one of those "drones" who "contribute little to this world". After all, that is why she got her degrees.
She has no guts or determination, she is unmotivated to do the basics of career progression. She took the easiest path possible, thus she made progressing in her career more difficult.
Similar logic applies to undergrad degrees as well. Most corporations recruit undergrad students right from the campus for internship and full time jobs of few selective schools.
I don't think recruiting is that big of a deal. I know a lot of people that I graduated with (with STEM majors) who got jobs with Microsoft, GM, and other big name companies without having been recruited at campus recruiting events.
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