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Like Jets said, and also climates that don't get regular summer visits from cold fronts.... like Shepparton.
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Originally Posted by Ethereal
Wait, I didn't say anything about true subtropical climates only have high diurnal ranges. I meant that a high diurnal range isn't a feature of an oceanic climate. Just that.
It is a feature of a climate like Shepparton, which is a climate with strong year round oceanic moderation
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still don't see how an "oceanic influence" would give a place colder nights when the sea actually moderates and "compacts" the temperature range. I thought that this a commonly known thing?
Your thinking on "compacted" diurnal range, is incorrect. The oceanic effect relates to seasonal range, not diurnal range
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the ocean makes climates have cold nights, then why are Sydney, Wollongong and Newcastle relatively warm at night? At least compared to the inland cities of the same latitude (Wagga Wagga, Goulburn, Albury). You got to see that their location and elevation have a big determining factor here.
Cold air masses makes a place have cold nights, and those cold fronts travel easiest over cool/cold ocean. Shepparton sits about 200 km north of an area of ocean where cold fronts are frequent year round, and there is little elevated terrain to deflect those cold fronts.
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You're right. But even true oceanic climates shouldn't be so contrasting between their day and night times. The only difference is that an oceanic climate has cooler or lower temperature ranges. So it should be seeing temps between 22C/14C in the warm months. NOT 28C/12C. That temperature range there is hardly oceanic. It's more "highlandic" or continental, especially when it's registered 500km inland.
Big diurnal range is only a feature of arid or elevated climates, nothing else. My climate is very Oceanic, yet has a diurnal range bigger than most Continental or subtropical climates- means nothing
Sydney actual sea temperature isnt all that "cool".
I am the one sort of implying that the Pacific Ocean is not cool, since I just said Sydney and Wollongong have rather warm nighttime temps. You should've replied that to Joe.
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It is a feature of a climate like Shepparton, which is a climate with strong year round oceanic moderation
A city like Melbourne is actually moderated by the ocean, hence the reason why it hardly sees subfreezing lows. So, quite to the contrary, cities on the south Victorian coast have a strong year round oceanic moderation. Not the inland Victorian/NSW cities. You got to admit that they're only colder than coastal areas because they're far more inland and elevated, and thus have less oceanic moderation.
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Your thinking on "compacted" diurnal range, is incorrect. The oceanic effect relates to seasonal range, not diurnal range
Then why do most oceanic climates have a rather stable, diminutive diurnal range?
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Cold air masses makes a place have cold nights, and those cold fronts travel easiest over cool/cold ocean. Shepparton sits about 200 km north of an area of ocean where cold fronts are frequent year round, and there is little elevated terrain to deflect those cold fronts.
The cold air mass come from a continental landmass of Antarctica. They don't magically appear out of the ocean near Tasmania. These will be seabreezes, which may form from an ocean. And this happens on the Sydney coast. There is a difference between ocean-moderated seabreezes and polar fronts coming from Antarctica.
When polar fronts reach Victoria, they don't really affect Melbourne and the coast that much. Why? Because the relatively warmer ocean moderates the coast. That's something the inland areas cannot do. Hence the reason why Shepparton would always be colder. It is NOT as ocean-moderated as Melbourne. There is a continental factor for its relative coolness - The relatively warm Victorian ocean does NOT moderate it, due to the distance. So the polar fronts would be "harsher" there.
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Big diurnal range is only a feature of arid or elevated climates, nothing else. My climate is very Oceanic, yet has a diurnal range bigger than most Continental or subtropical climates- means nothing
True. That's why cities like Shepparton, Albury, Wagga, etc, which have such high diurnal ranges, would not be oceanic climates. Incidentally, Shepparton is more of a semi-arid climate I believe.
You're right that you guys have a big diurnal range. But again, that's because of Antarctica and it's polar winds that easily reach you. If anything, the ocean actually tries hard moderating them (quite to the contrary of what you're saying). Otherwise, if there was a landmass below NZ, the cities at 43'S would have winters akin to Vladivostok.
I am the one sort of implying that the Pacific Ocean is not cool, since I just said Sydney and Wollongong have rather warm nighttime temps. You should've replied that to Joe.
A city like Melbourne is actually moderated by the ocean, hence the reason why it hardly sees subfreezing lows. So, quite to the contrary, cities on the south Victorian coast have a strong year round oceanic moderation. Not the inland Victorian/NSW cities. You got to admit that they're only colder than coastal areas because they're far more inland and elevated, and thus have less oceanic moderation.
Then why do most oceanic climates have a rather stable, diminutive diurnal range?
The cold air mass come from a continental landmass of Antarctica. They don't magically appear out of the ocean near Tasmania. These will be seabreezes, which may form from an ocean. And this happens on the Sydney coast. There is a difference between ocean-moderated seabreezes and polar fronts coming from Antarctica.
When polar fronts reach Victoria, they don't really affect Melbourne and the coast that much. Why? Because the relatively warmer ocean moderates the coast. That's something the inland areas cannot do. Hence the reason why Shepparton would always be colder. It is NOT as ocean-moderated as Melbourne. There is a continental factor for its relative coolness - The relatively warm Victorian ocean does NOT moderate it, due to the distance. So the polar fronts would be "harsher" there.
True. That's why cities like Shepparton, Albury, Wagga, etc, which have such high diurnal ranges, would not be oceanic climates. Incidentally, Shepparton is more of a semi-arid climate I believe.
You're right that you guys have a big diurnal range. But again, that's because of Antarctica and it's polar winds that easily reach you. If anything, the ocean actually tries hard moderating them (quite to the contrary of what you're saying). Otherwise, if there was a landmass below NZ, the cities at 43'S would have winters akin to Vladivostok.
Shepparton only has a 15C seasonal range, so not continental. It is directly effected by cold fronts year round round ( like oceanic climates), and those cold fronts are what give it colder summer temperatures. Being semi aid is incidental, - NZ has semi arid climates, but they are still fundamentally oceanic.
It isn't Glasgow or Invercargill, but the temporary nature of high pressure and cold fronts that follow as a result, are Oceanic in nature. Just the degree of that pattern is is different.
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Originally Posted by Joe90
Shepparton only has a 15C seasonal range, so not continental. It is directly effected by cold fronts year round round ( like oceanic climates), and those cold fronts are what give it colder summer temperatures. Being semi aid is incidental, - NZ has semi arid climates, but they are still fundamentally oceanic.
It isn't Glasgow or Invercargill, but the temporary nature of high pressure and cold fronts that follow as a result, are Oceanic in nature. Just the degree of that pattern is is different.
A signal of its oceanic climate is the mild record low considering its latitude and distance from the ocean.
A signal of its oceanic climate is the mild record low considering its latitude and distance from the ocean.
Yes, Shepparton has very much an Oceanic winter with lower sunshine and lower diurnal range than a Motueka winter. Temperatures follow a similar pattern with similar degrees of lag. Cfa climates in Australia tend towards dry winters, so with 3-4 times the amount of rain days in winter as summer, it doesn't fit the usual pattern.
It could be considered a variant of Mediterranean climate, and Med climates at these latitudes are basically just Oceanic climates with a warmer, drier summer anyway.
The average high in Örebro, Sweden (at 59N) was the same as here in July 2014?
We had a total fail of a summer that year. No monthly average highs above 80*F, quite a few days in the 60s/low 70s in all three summer months, and a warmest temperature for the year at only 89*F. We really got gypped that year.
not even a single 90s?
that'd resemble a tropical highland climate at around 1000m-1200 here. avg high mid-high 70's, avg low high 50's - low 60's, record high mid-high 80s, record low high 40s
Yes, Shepparton has very much an Oceanic winter with lower sunshine and lower diurnal range than a Motueka winter. Temperatures follow a similar pattern with similar degrees of lag. Cfa climates in Australia tend towards dry winters, so with 3-4 times the amount of rain days in winter as summer, it doesn't fit the usual pattern.
It could be considered a variant of Mediterranean climate, and Med climates at these latitudes are basically just Oceanic climates with a warmer, drier summer anyway.
What would you class Renmark's and Mildura's climates as?
Shepparton actually has colder winters than Melbourne, and that is with data only from 1996 to present at the airport station. Their July is a mere 3.4/13.2C. For comparison, the July averages at Renmark Airport are 3.8/16.3C.
Many of these places in inland NE Vic and adjacent areas of NSW (e.g. Wagga) are perhaps the most "continental" in Australia, they have relatively cool winters ( cooler than Melbourne and other coastal areas in southern Vic), but summers are a fair bit warmer. Wagga only averages 2.9/12.9C in July on the 1981-10 data.
that'd resemble a tropical highland climate at around 1000m-1200 here. avg high mid-high 70's, avg low high 50's - low 60's, record high mid-high 80s, record low high 40s
Nope - highest was 89 on 22 July. It was a fail of a summer IMO - we had a decent May that included an 87, but once summer started the "heat" was very disappointing. Thankfully most years aren't like that; we usually see about a half dozen to a dozen days in the 90s I'd guess.
According to SMHI, there's a distinction between measured precipitation and actual precipitation.
Which is more accurate and which is more comparable to other countries' precipitation stats?
The "actual precipitation" map seems to add about 200mm of precipitation everywhere.
Can't see that the area where I live in would be wetter than London (it's 80 mm less).
It hardly feels like it rains here except some brief heavy showers in summer and some days in the fall.
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