Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Was at the National Harbor and saw that the Aloft was closed and the new brand will be opening in March. Its Marriott brand called AC Hotels. Check out the link below.
Why? To see the true health of a development is when one chain store/boutique goes out of business what they replace it with. Now if it was replaced by with a weave shop or dollar store..than yes you should be worried, or if a empty store front sits for months on end. But it seems as if its being replaced with a similar maybe even better eatery so I see no problem. Stores come and go, just look at Bethesda Row, but they always find a way to replace a closed shop with something equally better
Why? To see the true health of a development is when one chain store/boutique goes out of business what they replace it with. Now if it was replaced by with a weave shop or dollar store..than yes you should be worried, or if a empty store front sits for months on end. But it seems as if its being replaced with a similar maybe even better eatery so I see no problem. Stores come and go, just look at Bethesda Row, but they always find a way to replace a closed shop with something equally better
huh????? I'm not sure where you are doing with your point.
It's the fact that it's a rare business in PG County and PG County needs to show that a business coming to the county can be successful, similar to how Wegmans was supported. I am sure people want better eating options but the only way places like that come is if they can be successful. I understand how stores work in shopping center but this isn't Bethesda Row, this isn't one of the richest towns in the nation. Bethesda can attract anything and anybody they want because they have $$$ and a reputation. National Harbor is established but it still doesn't have the reputation it will need to attract quality restaurants. It is still trying to build itself as a destination and losing a business is not good. It's good that they have replaced it, but the bigger question is why are places like Ketchup, Moon Bay, and Baja Fresh not succeeding.
huh????? I'm not sure where you are doing with your point.
It's the fact that it's a rare business in PG County and PG County needs to show that a business coming to the county can be successful, similar to how Wegmans was supported. I am sure people want better eating options but the only way places like that come is if they can be successful. I understand how stores work in shopping center but this isn't Bethesda Row, this isn't one of the richest towns in the nation. Bethesda can attract anything and anybody they want because they have $$$ and a reputation. National Harbor is established but it still doesn't have the reputation it will need to attract quality restaurants. It is still trying to build itself as a destination and losing a business is not good. It's good that they have replaced it, but the bigger question is why are places like Ketchup, Moon Bay, and Baja Fresh not succeeding.
Do you really believe this? At first I wanted to believe that you were joking. But since you wrote this paragraph, I see that you weren't joking.
First, Baja Fresh is not a true indicator of a development like National Harbor being successful or not. Like Mos82 said, it allows for a better restaurant to take its place. Turnover is the nature of the restaurant business. I would think Baja Fresh is on the low end of the Chipotles, Qudobas, and Moe's Southwest Grills of the world. Baja Fresh is to fast casual Tex-Mex as Subway is to deli sandwiches. Mediocre at best. And with 30+ othe rrestuarnats to compete with, it simply couldn't handle the competition.
Second, Ketcup didn't succeed because it was a crappy overpriced concept by Astin Kutcher, part of the That's 70's Show group of actors who owns the Dolce Group of restaurants. If you look online, the restaurant got horrible reviews in both NH and L.A.; overpriced mediocre food. The West Hollywood location also closed down. Again, it couldn't handle the competition. Another more interesting and locally popular concept is replacing Ketchup called The Walrus Oyster & Ale House which is currently getting better reviews than Ketchup. Why would that be a bad thing? Why should there be concern?
And Moon Bay? It's a hotel restaurant that didn't make the cut. None of the other hotel restaurants inside the Gaylord have closed. Competition.
So, shouldn't the bigger question be why are the other 27 or so restaurants succeeding? A lesson here would be that a restaurant closing doesn't spell doom for a development like National Harbor or Bethesda Row. Especially when another restaurant immediately replaces it.
Quote:
National Harbor is established but it still doesn't have the reputation it will need to attract quality restaurants.
So, you have a problem with the current restaurant mix at National Harbor and the future mix at MGM, which will be part of National Harbor? Are you suggesting NH will end up like Bowie Town Center or BLVD at the CAP because three restaurants out of 30 are being turned over?
Do you really believe this? At first I wanted to believe that you were joking. But since you wrote this paragraph, I see that you weren't joking.
First, Baja Fresh is not a true indicator of a development like National Harbor being successful or not. Like Mos82 said, it allows for a better restaurant to take its place. Turnover is the nature of the restaurant business. I would think Baja Fresh is on the low end of the Chipotles, Qudobas, and Moe's Southwest Grills of the world. Baja Fresh is to fast casual Tex-Mex as Subway is to deli sandwiches. Mediocre at best. And with 30+ othe rrestuarnats to compete with, it simply couldn't handle the competition.
Wow, people getting emotional over one simple statement about a restaurant. Must be the MD Suburbs section.
Baja Fresh is a low end restaurant, yet how many does PG County have? Hmmm...
Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky
Second, Ketcup didn't succeed because it was a crappy overpriced concept by Astin Kutcher, part of the That's 70's Show group of actors who owns the Dolce Group of restaurants. If you look online, the restaurant got horrible reviews in both NH and L.A.; overpriced mediocre food. The West Hollywood location also closed down. Again, it couldn't handle the competition. Another more interesting and locally popular concept is replacing Ketchup called The Walrus Oyster & Ale House which is currently getting better reviews than Ketchup. Why would that be a bad thing? Why should there be concern?
And Moon Bay? It's a hotel restaurant that didn't make the cut. None of the other hotel restaurants inside the Gaylord have closed. Competition.
If you looked at the reviews of all the businesses on multiple website, they all have the same types of complaints. And before you start, because I know how you roll, regardless of how valid you feel those reviews are people read those reviews and based their decision to patronize those businesses based on those reviews. Reputation of businesses have done far more damage than you will probably ever admit on here. It's not good that people keep complaining about customer service at most restaurants down there. Even when you look at the Gazette's review of best restaurants in the county, not a single one was from National Harbor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adelphi_sky
So, shouldn't the bigger question be why are the other 27 or so restaurants succeeding? A lesson here would be that a restaurant closing doesn't spell doom for a development like National Harbor or Bethesda Row. Especially when another restaurant immediately replaces it.
So, you have a problem with the current restaurant mix at National Harbor and the future mix at MGM, which will be part of National Harbor? Are you suggesting NH will end up like Bowie Town Center or BLVD at the CAP because three restaurants out of 30 are being turned over?
Those aren't the only businesses that have closed at National Harbor. We have a whole thread that we went over years ago that dealt with all of the businesses that closed at National Harbor from it's inception. You know that it hasn't been just 3 businesses that have failed there.
What is the definition of succeeding? Because they exist currently as you are making your argument? Again not a single restaurant is recognized in the county's flagship newspaper review. How does what is consider to be the most well regarded high-end development in the county not have one restaurant that people consider amongst the best? Is that success to you? Shouldn't the locals be vehemently in support of these businesses being recognized? Is this your idea of success?
I don't have a problem with the mix of restaurants at NH and I never suggested that NH was destined to be anything like that. How do I even begin to explain my point without it being taken like I'm talking to someone with the emotional state of a 5 year old child? Calm down, you take everything so personal and make it all about you. All I said is Baja closing is not good. Too many businesses have closed because of poor service. This is not a shot in the dark, this is a fact. My wife used to go to THAT Baja quite a bit and she was frustrated with the poor service, but the complaint sounded just like those individuals with Ketchup and Moon Bay. Does that mean NH is going to fail? No. It means they have a problem and I hope they fix it. Nothing more. No agenda, no schemes to plot for NH to fail. Just constructive criticism. Is that against the rules here?
Last edited by justtitans; 01-19-2015 at 09:11 PM..
Yeah I saw that. was initially surprised that Baja Fresh was gone but the reality is they were not that good. I also felt they needed to to clean it. Always seemed a little grimey when I went. NH is 6 years old so you are going to see a cycle of opening and closing. Its just the nature of a development.
Wow, people getting emotional over one simple statement about a restaurant. Must be the MD Suburbs section.
It's not a Maryland thing. You wanted to paint a narrative that because 3 restaurants closed down in a successful development, perhaps there was cause to question PG County's food retail market. Please know that when I respond to you, I'm also speaking to others in the thread by helping them understand some plausible reasons why I think these restaurants closed. It's not just about you. Marylander's like good food just like anyone else and if your food or service is not good, you won't last long. I would say the same thing in a VA thread, but I don't spend much time in those threads.
Quote:
Baja Fresh is a low end restaurant, yet how many does PG County have? Hmmm...
Maryland, including PG County, has one of the highest concentrations of Latin Americans. Why would someone go to some crappy Baja Fresh when they have the real deal? How many Latin food restaurants are in PG? How many Chipotle's and Qudoba's are in the county? I wouldn't be too concerned with loosing a Baja Fresh. Especially not at National Harbor. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. As expensive as the lease rates in National Harbor are, you have to be on your A-game. That's hard to do with a Baja Fresh franchise. Now if a Chipotle was there, and there are many in the county, the line would be out the door. They'd have to make two serving lines. Chipotle is that much better than Baja Fresh.
Quote:
If you looked at the reviews of all the businesses on multiple website, they all have the same types of complaints.
Explain the closing of Ketchup in L.A. Certainly L.A. can support a Ketchup right? Apparently L.A. felt the same about the restaurant. I'm not sure why Maryland has to support them just because they are new or unique. I count at least 20 original restaurants that have not closed since the opening of National Harbor. And they are still adding national chains that the DC area hasn't seen yet. We can talk reviews all day. The point is, Baja Fresh, Ketchup, and Moon Bay weren't cutting it. Moon Bay was a seafood restaurant owned and operated by Gaylord National Harbor that had to compete with McCormick and Schmick's and McLoone's Pier House. Whether it was the food or the service, I don't care. So many new restaurants are opening up in the county that I don't feel there is cause for concern about a few that close.
Quote:
Those aren't the only businesses that have closed at National Harbor. We have a whole thread that we went over years ago that dealt with all of the businesses that closed at National Harbor from it's inception. You know that it hasn't been just 3 businesses that have failed there.
As long as other retailers take their place, there should be no concern. As I've stated in those very threads that you mention, I've walked down Old Town and have seen empty storefronts. Drive through downtown DC and look at the turnover there. There is always turnover in retail. You either have what people want or you don't. You can either afford the lease or you can't. Why should that be a problem? As time goes on, there will be retailers that fit what the market demands and will stay for a long time. As UrbanScholar said, the development is only 6 years old and is doing quite well. It is rare for a new development to have 100% of its original lessees a decade later. Especially in a competitive market like DC. We see turnover in malls and outlet malls all the time. A cause for concern would be how long storefronts stay closed and what quality the replacement is. As far as I know, there are no nail salons and Chinese carryouts being opened at National Harbor just yet.
Quote:
What is the definition of succeeding? Because they exist currently as you are making your argument? Again not a single restaurant is recognized in the county's flagship newspaper review. ..... Shouldn't the locals be vehemently in support of these businesses being recognized? Is this your idea of success?
What newspaper? And who said a restaurant is successful only if it is mentioned in a newspaper review? If a restaurant is not mentioned in a newspaper you won't go? Well-recognized national chains are rarely mentioned because they already have a following and a reputation. McCormick and Schmick's would no more be mentioned in a newspaper than Olive Garden. People are already familiar with McCormick & Schmicks. The best local support is not some newspaper article but actually spending money at the establishment.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
A lesson here would be that a restaurant closing doesn't spell doom for a development like National Harbor or Bethesda Row. Especially when another restaurant immediately replaces it. 
