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I think that a great many Americans are obsessed by their heritage in a way that Europeans are not. Clearly, the USA is a nation of immigrants but so are most European countries. And yet, in Europe, people define who they are by where they were born and grew up and, possibly, where their parents are from but that is about as far as it goes.
People are who they are because of the environment they live in, and are brought up in. If somebody has American parents but are born and raised in the UK, educated in the UK etc then they are a product of Britain and are British. Same applies vica versa, and regardless of colour or race. Simple enough. My wife is from Chicago, and has Italian ancestry.. so tis not an American jab!
But that's not necessarily true. Culture from your heritage CAN be passed down through generations! From the big things to the small things. My family, for example, eats their salad after the main course which is a little cultural quirk passed down through our Italian heritage. A friend of my brother's is American but his parents are Indian and he's grown up on Indian food. Likewise, my Italian family eat a lot of pasta because my great grandparents were from Italy and made pasta a lot for their American children who then grew up to do the same with their children.
Ever see "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"? I believe it's based on the writer's own family. You can't possibly tell me that cultural heritage can't be or is never carried on and passed down even once the family moves to a new country!
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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Originally Posted by PA2UK
But that's not necessarily true. Culture from your heritage CAN be passed down through generations! From the big things to the small things. My family, for example, eats their salad after the main course which is a little cultural quirk passed down through our Italian heritage. A friend of my brother's is American but his parents are Indian and he's grown up on Indian food. Likewise, my Italian family eat a lot of pasta because my great grandparents were from Italy and made pasta a lot for their American children who then grew up to do the same with their children.
Ever see "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"? I believe it's based on the writer's own family. You can't possibly tell me that cultural heritage can't be or is never carried on and passed down even once the family moves to a new country!
Would agree that "culture" can be pretty darn persistent, even across generations and locations. Just look at French Quebec, Little Italy in NY, all the various "Chinatown's", etc.. And even though the Scots-Irish (a.k.a. Ulster-Scots) were some of the earliest immigrants to the U.S., many of their values are still alive & well today, centuries & many inter-marriages later, in the southern "hillbilly" culture.
BTW, would be curious to know if the rest of Scotland, or only the "borderland" Scots share the same love of "fighting" & "warrior culture" that the Ulster-Scots appear to? For example, Andrew Jackson, Ulysses S. Grant, George Patton, Douglas MacArthur, Audie Murphy and Ronald Reagan all have Ulster-Scottish heritage.
But that's not necessarily true. Culture from your heritage CAN be passed down through generations! From the big things to the small things. My family, for example, eats their salad after the main course which is a little cultural quirk passed down through our Italian heritage. A friend of my brother's is American but his parents are Indian and he's grown up on Indian food. Likewise, my Italian family eat a lot of pasta because my great grandparents were from Italy and made pasta a lot for their American children who then grew up to do the same with their children.
Ever see "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"? I believe it's based on the writer's own family. You can't possibly tell me that cultural heritage can't be or is never carried on and passed down even once the family moves to a new country!
No, we are talking about different things. I am not disputing that certain traditions or cultural quirks are passed on. What I am stating is that there is a huge difference between somebody who has foreign parents/grand parents and may have experienced and learned cultural traditions, and someone who is native to a country.
People I meet in the US for example who claim to be 'Italian', 'Polish' or 'Irish' for example usually share little to nothing in common with people native to those countries.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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Seems to me like you're splitting hairs. Aside from acquiring some of the habits and outlook of American culture, what "huge" or profound difference is there between a 2nd generation Italian growing up in Little Italy and a native-born Italian living in any comparable large Italian city? Actually, they both probably have way more in common with each other, than either does with, say, an Appalachian hillbilly, or a black teenager in Watts.
No, we are talking about different things. I am not disputing that certain traditions or cultural quirks are passed on. What I am stating is that there is a huge difference between somebody who has foreign parents/grand parents and may have experienced and learned cultural traditions, and someone who is native to a country.
I never stated otherwise.
Quote:
People I meet in the US for example who claim to be 'Italian', 'Polish' or 'Irish' for example usually share little to nothing in common with people native to those countries.
They just mean their heritage is Italian, Polish, Irish, etc. Stop nit picking and taking it literally.
I'll use Irish Americans as an example here since I used to live in Ireland with my Irish born husband and his family (I'm not Irish/American though).
Traditions are very different from culture. Children brought up in America (especially when raised by parents from America) will have an American view on everything. Their perspective will be from an American viewpoint since a child will not grow up in an Irish school, playing Irish sport, learning traditional music, understand Irish history, politics, or even television or understand nuances in the Irish personality.
It's not really something that can be taught or understood unless you actually grow up there. There are even differences in perspective from county to county, differences between rural dwellers and the Dubliners.
I have found that Irish Americans know nothing about Ireland or it's culture for the most part..they have an American perspective on what they think it might be (Riverdance, Danny Boy, Corned beef/ cabbage, and "top of the morning, etc.). If an Irish American were to visit the country, the locals will not see them as Irish..they will only be seen as American. Culture cannot be understood unless experienced from living there, growing up there.. it's far more complex than eating a food or knowing a song.
Just because a tradition has been passed down (like bacon/cabbage on St Patrick's day for instance) It doesn't make you more Irish than the Asian family doing the same!
I don't believe anyone thinks it does. But fact is, Americans can still be influenced by their European heritage and that's all people mean when they say things like "I'm Irish".
Absolutely. Ever been to an Irish American or Italian American funeral vs a Dutch American or Scandanavian American funeral? The Italian or Irish funerals have people crying, yelling, and fanning themselves, while the German or Scandanavian ones have stoic, sullen people biting their lips. Americans have a lot in common with their ancestors abroad. Italian drama, English smarmy sarcasm, Irish tall-tales blarney, German no-nonsense attitude. You see it over here too. Doesn't matter if they've ever been to the home country. Stereotyping isn't politically correct, but certain groups share certain traits. It's in the blood, we're all products of our ancestors.
Absolutely. Ever been to an Irish American or Italian American funeral vs a Dutch American or Scandanavian American funeral? The Italian or Irish funerals have people crying, yelling, and fanning themselves, while the German or Scandanavian ones have stoic, sullen people biting their lips. Americans have a lot in common with their ancestors abroad. Italian drama, English smarmy sarcasm, Irish tall-tales blarney, German no-nonsense attitude. You see it over here too. Doesn't matter if they've ever been to the home country. Stereotyping isn't politically correct, but certain groups share certain traits. It's in the blood, we're all products of our ancestors.
There's a mantra out here in the Irish areas in San Francisco.."more Irish than the Irish" (maybe it's universal?) .... they don't even use that word "blarney"... it's a made up American term. I have never heard it used there (and I lived not too far far away from that tourist spot)
When I lived in Ireland, I met plenty of Irish Americans that were pretty much shell shocked because they didn't fit in, or tried their hardest to understand what was meant or interpreted by what was said (and I don't mean accents.) It was a completely different experience than what they thought it would be. It is different in many subtle ways..
I just don't agree with your assessments..and I've been to plenty of funerals and weddings in Ireland (I can't comment on Italian/Scandinavian weddings/funerals).. and I just haven't experienced what you are talking about. Haven't ever seen any "fanning" or drama or "yelling". It sounds like an American stereotype to me. It's just not accurate (at least in Ireland).
I just feel like Americans have an identity crisis at times...they want to express a part of themselves but end up falling for the stereotypes or images they see on t.v. or read in books. It's never what they expect (I'm not talking about a two week holiday). The "blood" thing is mostly American style b.s. (with the exception of living in America amongst all recent immigrants). Culture is actually something that must be experienced and not just told about.
There's a mantra out here in the Irish areas in San Francisco.."more Irish than the Irish" (maybe it's universal?) .... they don't even use that word "blarney"... it's a made up American term. I have never heard it used there (and I lived not too far far away from that tourist spot)
When I lived in Ireland, I met plenty of Irish Americans that were pretty much shell shocked because they didn't fit in, or tried their hardest to understand what was meant or interpreted by what was said (and I don't mean accents.) It was a completely different experience than what they thought it would be. It is different in many subtle ways..
I just don't agree with your assessments..and I've been to plenty of funerals and weddings in Ireland (I can't comment on Italian/Scandinavian weddings/funerals).. and I just haven't experienced what you are talking about. Haven't ever seen any "fanning" or drama or "yelling". It sounds like an American stereotype to me. It's just not accurate (at least in Ireland).
I just feel like Americans have an identity crisis at times...they want to express a part of themselves but end up falling for the stereotypes or images they see on t.v. or read in books. It's never what they expect (I'm not talking about a two week holiday). The "blood" thing is mostly American style b.s. (with the exception of living in America amongst all recent immigrants). Culture is actually something that must be experienced and not just told about.
It's a made up American term? Maybe, if the Queen of England was American.
I didn't say the Irish use the word blarney, it's another term for "bull****"
which I definitely attribute to the Irish-of which I'm half. The Irish love to chat and stretch the truth. Maybe the young Irish are different, but when I've been to Ireland I've sat at many bars and heard many tall tales. A lot of Irish Americans I know fit the bill. Granted, a lot of the taletellers in Ireland were older and buzzed. But in the same sense, many Irish Americans I know are great writers and tell their tales well. The facts are better unchecked though.
The blood thing? It's more like genes. Ever notice how cocker spaniels lift their paw and point when they see birds, even when they haven't been raised to hunt? Same thing. We're the DNA of our ancestors, hence alcoholism (I won't go further), talents and weaknesses.
I plead guilty to accepting stereotypes. You accuse Americans of falling for stereotypes, yet your post is full of assumptions about what Americans think. Very borish.
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