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I have been hearing so much about National identity recently in the media and what it is to be British/English?
I have lived here for almost 20 years now but I am perfectly aware I will never be anything but a foreigner to most people.
I can pass as English by the way I speak but I will never be privvy to many of its cultural secret rites of passage !
I am just curious ? What makes you Brits, feel British and most importantly in an era of Scottish Devolution and Welsh Assembly , how do you define your Englishness ?
I'm a Scot, so I can't answer anything about the English.
For Scots it's all about passionately hating English sports teams, English government, English accents, English attitudes and bearing the grudge of Culloden and venerating Bannockburn. And I only half jest, a lot of Scots unity comes from being the perceived underdog. A lot of the rest comes from pride at how many amazing thinkers, inventors and adventurers came from such a small country. We also have a pretty strong and identifiable culture and history.
There is no rite of passage, just a way of thinking, of looking at the world, a sense of national pride. The ability to know what town a person comes from by their accent, the ability to still know how to dance Strip the Willow or the Gay Gordon (sounds dirty out of context), knowing the words to the first verse of "Flower of Scotland" and mumbling convincingly to the second. Feeling your heart swell to "Scotland the Brave" or at the sight of a thistle. Living in the US and dressing your son in a kilt and Scottish rugby shirt and having a St. Andrews flag flying outside even if it annoys the neighbours.
It's just about the indefinable things that make you know you are home.
Its hard to define what makes somebody British, but the book 'Notes from a Small Island' by Bill Bryson is a very good obvservation on British culture and querkiness. I think that if you can relate to his observations you would have a reasonable understanding of what it is like to be a Brit.
I have been hearing so much about National identity recently in the media and what it is to be British/English?
I have lived here for almost 20 years now but I am perfectly aware I will never be anything but a foreigner to most people.
Yeah, i can sympathise with that. Lived there 29 years and those darned brits did a fine job in reminding anyone who either were'nt white and much in the later years, black, you were'nt right.
Just as well then, made the move to the US soooo much sweeter
Yeah, i can sympathise with that. Lived there 29 years and those darned brits did a fine job in reminding anyone who either were'nt white and much in the later years, black, you were'nt right.
Just as well then, made the move to the US soooo much sweeter
Where did you live ?
I moved to Suffolk and lived there several years and felt like a foreigner, so it isn't just a case of being a foreigner in the UK. But in my case a Londoner moving to the country.
Where did you live ?
I moved to Suffolk and lived there several years and felt like a foreigner, so it isn't just a case of being a foreigner in the UK. But in my case a Londoner moving to the country.
A lot of the English who moved to Scotland are surprised by the differences too.
People forget how provincial the UK actually is for such a small island. So many little corners with their own accents, colloquialisms, customs and sub cultures. Cornwall, Kent, London, Yorkshire, Wales (north and south), Manchester, the different regions of Scotland. All very unique.
Ian - LOVE "Notes from a Small Island".
Last edited by Cornerguy1; 02-20-2008 at 06:36 PM..
Reason: orphaned content
A lot of the English who moved to Scotland are surprised by the differences too.
People forget how provincial the UK actually is for such a small island. So many little corners with their own accents, colloquialisms, customs and sub cultures. Cornwall, Kent, London, Yorkshire, Wales (north and south), Manchester, the different regions of Scotland. All very unique.
Ian - LOVE "Notes from a Small Island".
I'm going to have to read that. I always mean to but haven't got round to it yet.
Moose - do you mean what defines a 'British' person or what the general characteristics are? I'd say you're definitely British if you were born here, but then most people who've spent 20 years or so here probably are too. Maybe if you feel at home here and don't tend to pine for other places...
In terms of how you recognise a typical Brit, it's very difficult to say what makes you British when you've never been any other way. All I can do is compare us to the culture I've seen on the odd holiday and on TV but I'm well aware that it's not a complete picture.
I think it's just an essence of down-to-earthness, understatedness (ignoring the lager louts!), unnecessary politeness, making light of everything, apologising to strangers who bump into you ("gosh I'm so sorry for being here!")...
For me the main thing that marks Brits out is a slightly roll-eyes and chuckling reaction to anything melodramatic. And I don't think this is a genetic trait, I think it's learned behaviour. When everyone else apologises and queues politely for anything, you copy the behaviour!
Incidentally, we queued for 20 minutes to go up the Eiffel tower recently and then found out we were in the wrong queue. Typical Brit: "Oooh here's a queue, there must be something good at the end of it"
Its hard to define what makes somebody British, but the book 'Notes from a Small Island' by Bill Bryson is a very good obvservation on British culture and querkiness. I think that if you can relate to his observations you would have a reasonable understanding of what it is like to be a Brit.
Yes, you are right to a certain extent but that was of course written from an American's perspective and therefore even he doesn't really know what it is like to grow up British. I guess I would define being 'British' as having this unique sense of humour which is alot more than just being able to tell the odd joke or two. I believe it is finding the funny side in situations that American's could not possibly conceive of....certain British comedies have done this well...being able to laugh at yourself too...that is surely uniquely British...Bill Bryson though, he definitely does 'get it' and this is why his books are very appealing
I'm going to have to read that. I always mean to but haven't got round to it yet.
Moose - do you mean what defines a 'British' person or what the general characteristics are? I'd say you're definitely British if you were born here, but then most people who've spent 20 years or so here probably are too. Maybe if you feel at home here and don't tend to pine for other places...
In terms of how you recognise a typical Brit, it's very difficult to say what makes you British when you've never been any other way. All I can do is compare us to the culture I've seen on the odd holiday and on TV but I'm well aware that it's not a complete picture.
I think it's just an essence of down-to-earthness, understatedness (ignoring the lager louts!), unnecessary politeness, making light of everything, apologising to strangers who bump into you ("gosh I'm so sorry for being here!")...
For me the main thing that marks Brits out is a slightly roll-eyes and chuckling reaction to anything melodramatic. And I don't think this is a genetic trait, I think it's learned behaviour. When everyone else apologises and queues politely for anything, you copy the behaviour!
Incidentally, we queued for 20 minutes to go up the Eiffel tower recently and then found out we were in the wrong queue. Typical Brit: "Oooh here's a queue, there must be something good at the end of it"
I love your post, it does ring so true ! I guess I was trying to ascertain what makes you feel you are English culturally, socially, attitudes etc...
I for one love Britain warts and all , I love the self-deprecating sense of humour, a certain stiff upper-lip attitude to life, and of utter stubborness when the chips are down.
Queuing does indeed indeed seem to be a national past-time and it amazes me how many people think a cuppa will solve everything . I giggle every time you see someone who has just been in a terrible car accident or lost a loved one on TV and people just say : "have a cuppa tea, it will make you feel better! !!
Talking of the weather and house-prices should be a sport on the Olympics, Britain would win all the gold...
I love the way Britain fosters eccentrics, the way it deals with issues with a certain sense of irony and sarcasm all of its own.
I am just wondering how you define yourself as English/British. I have never been "nationalistic" at all, having moved a great deal and have never identified with just one place. It sounds trite but to me home is where I like it , so I always try to understand how people see themselves in terms of identity.
The closest I come to this sort of thing is being Breton. Which is much more regional. Then European , then French. I am very proud of some of France's aspects, no doubt about it but also ashamed of many too.
I have always felt nationality to be a game of chance, a birth lottery so to speak and have never truly identified with one place, one true home.
I love your post, it does ring so true ! I guess I was trying to ascertain what makes you feel you are English culturally, socially, attitudes etc...
I for one love Britain warts and all , I love the self-deprecating sense of humour, a certain stiff upper-lip attitude to life, and of utter stubborness when the chips are down.
Queuing does indeed indeed seem to be a national past-time and it amazes me how many people think a cuppa will solve everything . I giggle every time you see someone who has just been in a terrible car accident or lost a loved one on TV and people just say : "have a cuppa tea, it will make you feel better! !!
Talking of the weather and house-prices should be a sport on the Olympics, Britain would win all the gold...
I love the way Britain fosters eccentrics, the way it deals with issues with a certain sense of irony and sarcasm all of its own. .
There's certainly a lot of sarcasm, but then there's plenty of that elsewhere too! The whole thing of talking about the weather is so true, but it's an immensely useful thing as well, especially when escorting someone you've never met before into a meeting. "Good journey? How long did it take to get here? Weather was good for it anyway...." I don't know what it is about cups of tea either. Comforting I suppose. In some mysterious way. I suppose when you're brought up with the notion that "Time for a cup of tea" means you can have a break now, stop, sit down, relax... it's like Pavlov's dogs - when someone even offers you a cup of tea you relax. Maybe I've just cracked it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer
I am just wondering how you define yourself as English/British. I have never been "nationalistic" at all, having moved a great deal and have never identified with just one place. It sounds trite but to me home is where I like it , so I always try to understand how people see themselves in terms of identity.
The closest I come to this sort of thing is being Breton. Which is much more regional. Then European , then French. I am very proud of some of France's aspects, no doubt about it but also ashamed of many too.
I have always felt nationality to be a game of chance, a birth lottery so to speak and have never truly identified with one place, one true home.
It fascinates me I guess.
Can you see an "identity" for people from Breton then? I mean - can you identify defining characteristics? It's interesting that you put a region first, then Europe, then France. That would be like me saying I'm from Leicestershire, then Europe, then England, which I don't feel at all - I'd just say I feel English.
We're all ashamed of some aspects of our culture - not to do so would be jingoistic and more than a little blinkered.
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