Is Toledo REALLY that bad. (Newark, Baltimore: colleges, restaurants, swimming)

[canudigit]

Originally Posted by snacks1000

Do you think that a midscale development of luxury condominiums would fare well in the center of downtown Toledo. Is there enough wealthy residents looking to live in the downtown core to make a project like this an opportunity for revenue?

I think that with Promedica moving 800 or so white collar jobs downtown and the snowball effect that that will eventually have on other companies moving jobs downtown, along with the revitalization that has been ongoing on in the Arena and Warehouse Districts, projects like this could definitely do very well and higher end housing downtown could possibly be in demand someday in the not too distant future. The key, though, is that there are going to have to be other amenities added as well to make living downtown realistic for people. It isn't realistic to have to drive several miles through rough to downright dangerous neighborhoods just to get a gallon of milk or pick up items at Walgreen's. There will need to be adequate shopping in terms of daily necessities so that people don't have to leave downtown to get the things that they need. To be able to work at Promedica, for example, and live in a luxury condo a few blocks away without having to drive out to west Toledo to get basic necessities would be awesome. The way things are now, with no grocery or drug stores downtown, it would get tiresome very quickly. I realize that there is a grocery store on Cherry Street and one down on Broadway in the Old South End, but realistically, people aren't going to feel safe shopping in those stores.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by canudigit

I think that with Promedica moving 800 or so white collar jobs downtown

It might be 2,500 now. http://www.13abc.com/story/27805087/...bs-to-downtown

[canudigit]

Originally Posted by ferraris

It might be 2,500 now. http://www.13abc.com/story/27805087/...bs-to-downtown

Thanks, I did see that story a few days ago. I only quoted the 800 because I didn't originally read this story, so I wasn't sure how definite it was that there would be more. 2,500 would be great!

I am an RN who has worked for Promedica in a clinical capacity, but I think that if I was one of their white collar workers I would be excited about moving to the new headquarters downtown. It would have to be so much better than sitting in some cubicle in a nondescript office building in Sylvania or west Toledo. River view, walks along the river on your lunch break, being able to partake of food trucks and hotdog stands for open air eating...being surrounded by old buildings with character...what's not to like?

I'm usually cautiously optimistic, but this time I feel really excited for downtown Toledo. This move by Promedica has the potential to totally revitalize the wasted jewel that is Toledo's downtown.

[Tobias C]

Originally Posted by canudigit

I think that with Promedica moving 800 or so white collar jobs downtown and the snowball effect that that will eventually have on other companies moving jobs downtown, along with the revitalization that has been ongoing on in the Arena and Warehouse Districts, projects like this could definitely do very well and higher end housing downtown could possibly be in demand someday in the not too distant future. The key, though, is that there are going to have to be other amenities added as well to make living downtown realistic for people. It isn't realistic to have to drive several miles through rough to downright dangerous neighborhoods just to get a gallon of milk or pick up items at Walgreen's. There will need to be adequate shopping in terms of daily necessities so that people don't have to leave downtown to get the things that they need. To be able to work at Promedica, for example, and live in a luxury condo a few blocks away without having to drive out to west Toledo to get basic necessities would be awesome. The way things are now, with no grocery or drug stores downtown, it would get tiresome very quickly. I realize that there is a grocery store on Cherry Street and one down on Broadway in the Old South End, but realistically, people aren't going to feel safe shopping in those stores.

Good points.

Downtown grocery options are a big focal point when it comes to getting people to move downtown. There was talk of a luckys grocery store (similar to trader joes) going into the Erie Street Market building, which would be perfect. I think that, plus a decent drug store like a Rite Aid, CVS, etc...or maybe even a local pharmacy would be a great start to making a downtown lifestyle viable for more people.

[canudigit]

Originally Posted by Tobias C

Good points.

Downtown grocery options are a big focal point when it comes to getting people to move downtown. There was talk of a luckys grocery store (similar to trader joes) going into the Erie Street Market building, which would be perfect. I think that, plus a decent drug store like a Rite Aid, CVS, etc...or maybe even a local pharmacy would be a great start to making a downtown lifestyle viable for more people.

And more restaurants and stores that are open after 5 PM. If people are going to live downtown, they can't roll up the sidewalks at the end of the workday like they have for all these years. True, there are now restaurants around the ballpark and arena that are open later, but I'm talking more like a local, inexpensive deli or coffee shop. No one eats somewhere like Pizza Papolis every day, those are more like special occasion, "after the game" types of places. Pricey and celebratory. Somewhere safe and clean to get an inexpensive sandwich and cup of coffee that caters to the downtown dwellers is what I'm talking about. Tim Hortons, Chipotle, Panera Bread, etc.

[Tobias C]

Originally Posted by canudigit

And more restaurants and stores that are open after 5 PM. If people are going to live downtown, they can't roll up the sidewalks at the end of the workday like they have for all these years. True, there are now restaurants around the ballpark and arena that are open later, but I'm talking more like a local, inexpensive deli or coffee shop. No one eats somewhere like Pizza Papolis every day, those are more like special occasion, "after the game" types of places. Pricey and celebratory. Somewhere safe and clean to get an inexpensive sandwich and cup of coffee that caters to the downtown dwellers is what I'm talking about. Tim Hortons, Chipotle, Panera Bread, etc.

Agreed. There's already decent options for that level of dining...but as you said, they're basically only open for the office workers and close up by dinner time. I'm willing to bet we see a lot more of those types of places spring up with the influx of jobs downtown though.

[residinghere2007]

Originally Posted by Tobias C

We already have dozens of large old buildings downtown renovated into loft apartments and condos. The demand for residential is higher than a lot of people suspect or know. At the moment though, the most in demand type of residential would be apartments as the younger adults who are living downtown won't buy a condo. I would say we need more apartments in the 600 to 900 dollar range. There were some condos like the Bartley Lofts, and they cost around 400k but those didn't sell as well and now some can be rented for like 1200 a month or so. I just don't think many wealthy people in the area are interested in urban living. I'm not convinced there's a demand for anything super high end yet though. Downtown is definitely progressing steadily though.

I agree with above. I worked in property management for many years along with real estate development and I wouldn't think that downtown Toledo, just from knowing what I know about these industries, would attract enough wealthy people to be profitable for investors.

Like other posters said, there is not enough retail to attract higher incomes and the attitude IMO, in these parts does not equate wealthy living with urban living, it is still considered a suburban or particular residential neighborhood sort of connotation here.

That said, since moving back here, I have met a few people, who are investors and who are above middle income range here who are older, 50+ who told me that they are looking to move downtown or Uptown (warehouse district) due to the revitalization efforts going on. So I do feel that incorporating more upscale floor plans in mid-range apartment communities along with having smaller condo developments that cater to baby-boomers would be a great idea.

My own grandmother, over 10 years ago moved downtown because she wanted to live in a "penthouse" with a river view lol. She only lived on the 9th floor but it was a great view. She loved living there but didn't like the parking situation, which I hear is better now but IMO needs work.

[snacks1000]

250k for a 2 bedroom 2 bathroom with 1500 - 1800 square feet newly renovated in downtown Toledo sound good?

[Tobias C]

Originally Posted by snacks1000

250k for a 2 bedroom 2 bathroom with 1500 - 1800 square feet newly renovated in downtown Toledo sound good?

What building is that? Seems good, especially if it's in the core of the Warehouse District.

[snacks1000]

An idea I have for a building in downtown Toledo, building is a bargain and ripe for renovations into new apartments or (reaching) development into a completely taller 10-12 story building.