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My wife and I are considering either moving to Toledo or working their for a time. We are interested in all the arts developments there because we work in our arts community. Some of the things we saw in researching the city online look great and are well developed! I have read some posts about Toledo and appreciate all the great info, but I want to know a couple things.
Two red flags we have: Low price of housing and people leaving the city. What is the deal? Online we saw some great looking houses for great prices. Are these all in crime areas or are housing costs that low? Are people leaving because historically the city has been on a downturn for so long? Is it really on the upswing right now?
My wife and I are considering either moving to Toledo or working their for a time. We are interested in all the arts developments there because we work in our arts community. Some of the things we saw in researching the city online look great and are well developed! I have read some posts about Toledo and appreciate all the great info, but I want to know a couple things.
Two red flags we have: Low price of housing and people leaving the city. What is the deal? Online we saw some great looking houses for great prices. Are these all in crime areas or are housing costs that low? Are people leaving because historically the city has been on a downturn for so long? Is it really on the upswing right now?
Thanks for any info
Let me address the red flags..If you look at almost every upper midwestern industral city such as Toledo, Dayton, Cleveland, Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Pittsburg etc you will find the housing prices are falling and population declining and there are few exceptions. In Detroit houses cost less than automobiles.People are deciding to move to better job markets in the south and west..There is nothing fundamentally wrong with these cities outside of having troubled economies.These cities are trying to recreate thier economies after being too heavily invested in manufacturing. Toledo has actually done a better job than similar cities in retaining its population so take it for what its worth. On the bright side if you move to Toledo you will live like a king because you can afford homes here you couldn't afford anywhere else in the country.
Im not sure what neighborhoods you were checking out, there are good parts and bad parts just like any other city. Is Toledo in a upswing? Considering where is has been I would say yes but it depends on who you ask. A project started is a downtown Marina District which will be VERY nice when/if it gets completed. A new sports complex/arena which will also be downtown will break ground this summer. There has been talks of creating a "Arts District" but nothing is official.
If You Think That You Can Make It In Ohio And Survive. Then By All Means Go For It. I Think It Is A Nasty Dirty Place To Live. And That Is Why Alot Of People Are Leaving There. I Lived There For 26 Years Of My Life And I Am So Glad That I Went South. And Found A Better Life And A Better Job. If I Never Go Back To Toledo, I Wll Be Happy.... The Place Smells And Looks So Gloomy. That Is Why The House Prices Are So Low. Everyone Wants Out Of There...
Toledo is blue collar and may not be the best place for working in the arts. Not sure where you are comming from but the Property Taxes in Toledo are high in addition to the 2.25% income tax you will incure. You may look at Bowling Green. 10 miles south of Town. They have a large Arts festival every year. Also you may want to read the Toledo Blade for more info on the city. the daily paper.
Toledo's Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder - I have come to like it here.
Not everything is as it seems. As far as what "nashvillebrat' said about Toledo, that all depends on if she/he was in the ghetto part of the city or not, which is the poorest area of town, I believe to be around Bush, Lagrange,& maybe Eleanor Streets, and a certain area in the North end (East Toledo seems to have lots of drug activity in the St. Louis/Arden Place area, and around Fassett Street and the Weiler Homes)..but they are working on that, and the Block Watches in the questionable areas are trying very hard to help it's neighbors to get things right. We have a lot of PRIDE in our city, whether we are low income or wealthy..there can be good and bad, sex offenders and snobby, in every city and any area, but MOST of Toledo is very nice.
I was born and raised here, moved away to the beautiful Gulf coast of Florida and CAME BACK!! (but it was because of family LOL) and I am still here, parents gone, 20 years later.
Toledo has lots of homes for sale in my area, which is East Toledo, at very reasonable prices, but still much higher than they should be. Our taxes were reassessed in 2001 and that increased the "tax" value of the homes to around 20 thousand more than the homes were worth...I am currently trying to fight mine and so are a lot of ppl.
I have to mention the thorn in my side about Toledo, which is out utility costs. They are one of the highest in the country considering our population and that fact that we even have a nuclear power plant out about 30 miles from here.
There is always crime in larger cities, and here it is due to mostly drugs, in my opinion. You just have to stay away from those areas where it is common. And we are in the midst of the Mayor making budget cuts to fix the debt the city owes (also bc of him in my opinion) but on the other side, he has made Toledo much more appealing in the improvements, the new Veterans Memorial bridge being built (due to be completed next month) the new Marina District which began construction this Spring in East Toledo, our new baseball stadium in downtown Toledo (magnificent) and much more. Our downtown area is safe and bustling with workers and visitors alike, and we often have events, fireworks, and bands on the Maumee River during warmer months.
There are many places you can go to for assistance if you have a rough start - they don't have half of these services in some other cities. I have tons more "positives" but not enough time to type all of them as it's a gorgeous 70 degree day and I want to go work in the yard...if you need specifics, and I mean both good and bad, feel free to write me and ask, but if you want statistics, a great place is here at city-data.com. Toledo.com is a good place for things to do. HelloToledo.com is another good link.
Even where I live gets a bad rap, but I can walk, even at night safely here, take the public transportation to anywhere in Toledo, and shop for very inexpensive groceries...there is going to be good and bad in every city, it just depends on what is important to you.
One thing I've noticed that I must mention, is that when the weather forecast says bad weather is coming, it ALMOST always misses us. Whether it is rain, storms, tornadoes, winter blizzards, 9 out of 10 times it goes north to Michigan or south to Findlay and Tiffin. Every time I "batten down the hatches" for a storm blowing in, I get mad each time because I usually have brought everything in for a 5 minute rain. THAT is something that has changed within the last 10 years...maybe global warming, maybe it's the lake breezes that saves us, I don't know, but I am grateful.
I also had a blog at toledoeast.blog-city.com that has TONS of links from schools, to events, to our ethnic beginnings, if you can get to it. Right now it is under construction (just like all cities in the summer!) so please check back if you wish, another time perhaps.
I am just one person, and this is my opinion, I welcome others opinions as well to help Toledo newcomers be aware of what we offer as well as what to beware of.
Thanks for asking though!
One thing I've noticed that I must mention, is that when the weather forecast says bad weather is coming, it ALMOST always misses us. Whether it is rain, storms, tornadoes, winter blizzards, 9 out of 10 times it goes north to Michigan or south to Findlay and Tiffin
That is SO true. Toledo's location protects it from many of the really bad storms...though it still has weather extremes, but they mainly are the epic thunderstorms that happen in the summer and fall. I live in southern Ohio now, and I'd say the weather down here is much worse. There are about 15-30 fewer sunny days every year, and summers are loaded with overcast days (though fewer thrunderstroms- so basically drizzle with no excitement). Toledo summers are usually hot, humid, and sunny- perfect weather for boating on the Maumee River or going to a beach on Lake Erie (East Harbor is best). We of course don't have any beaches in southern Ohio, and they are sorely missed during the summertime.
BTW, great post. Toledo is a remarkable city and is incredibly diverse by Ohio standards. There are very few Midwestern cities that have retained their ethnic enclaves, but Toledo is one of them. The Lebanese, Polish, Hungarian, Mexican, and Syrian culture is easily the best in the state. It really is a friendly city with more options than almost any other city its size in North America. The restaurants, art museum, zoo, minor league/college sports, affordable housing, metroparks, and local music scene all contribute to a surprisingly high standard in living. The good life is not just reserved for the rich in Toledo.
We are interested in all the arts developments there because we work in our arts community.
The arts scene in Toledo is better than in other industrial cities its size. With that said, income in the area is not high, so it may be hard for an independent artist to get by on strictly art sales. Most artists seem to have other jobs too.
I'm sure you've already heard of the musuem (one of the best in the world), and the Toledo School for the Arts is ranked one of the 10 best charter high schools in America. The faculty is amazing, and I have never seen more talented students than in Toledo. It's very impressive and relatively recent (the school is not that old), and I expect we'll be seeing a lot of national musicians and dancers hailing from that school in the near future.
The are a lot of art galleries in the Downtown, Uptown, Warehouse District, and Old West End neighborhoods. Many artists live by the galleries too, and most are friendly and supportive of each other. Toledo tends to have more fame in photography, graphic arts, and glass than anything else though. There are a fair number of graphics arts firms around town with national reputations.
Online we saw some great looking houses for great prices. Are these all in crime areas or are housing costs that low?
Yes, they really are that low, and the housing stock is quite good. Toledo has a fair amount of crime (like any big city), but it's mostly non-violent crime. Rape and murder rates are lower than any other major city in Ohio, and lower than most similarly-sized cities in America. Toledo is a pretty safe city, but there is a lot of drug dealing and a fair amount of prostitution (due to its location by Canada, Lake Erie, I-75, and I-80/90). For some reason, Toledo has always had low violent crime rates, but has been high in drug and sex trade. Most people think those go hand-in-hand, but it really depends on the city. Comparatively, Detroit is also big in drug/sex trade (for the same reasons as Toledo), but violent crime is much higher there. It's a more dangerous city, but even in Detroit, many areas are still safe.
Basically, stay away from the drug and sex trade, and you should be fine in most neighborhoods, even the central city ones. I know people from the Old West End, Vistula (the oldest part of the city), East Toledo, Uptown, Downtown, and the Warehouse District, and none of them have ever been the victim of a violent crime. They mainly see petty theft and an occasional break-in...nothing too severe. It really depends on the company you keep...
We have a lot of PRIDE in our city, whether we are low income or wealthy..there can be good and bad, sex offenders and snobby, in every city and any area, but MOST of Toledo is very nice.
Very true. Toledoans tend to keep their pride through the good and bad economic times (Toledo is just getting out of the recession with new investments in alternative fuel, health care, and increased shipping and rail traffic). Toledo was one of America's founding BlockWatch cities, and that legacy has stuck.
My wife and I are considering either moving to Toledo or working their for a time. We are interested in all the arts developments there because we work in our arts community. Some of the things we saw in researching the city online look great and are well developed! I have read some posts about Toledo and appreciate all the great info, but I want to know a couple things.
Two red flags we have: Low price of housing and people leaving the city. What is the deal? Online we saw some great looking houses for great prices. Are these all in crime areas or are housing costs that low? Are people leaving because historically the city has been on a downturn for so long? Is it really on the upswing right now?
Thanks for any info
As far as the housing, while some places are getting lower, it's not necessarily that there's more crime (actually, the street I used to live on has 8 houses for sale, and while it's not an upscale neighborhood by any means, it's not crime infested either). I used to live in the Crossgates neighborhood as a kid, and that was a pretty nice area, especially if you have kids. There was a bit of a divide between the public school kids and private school kids (didn't really mesh with each other), but it was always well kept and fairly quiet.
There isn't much in terms of arts (at least where finding work is concerned), but we do have a great art museum, and BG (about 20 min away) has the Black Swamp Arts Festival every year. Now, if you're looking for studying art (or having the opportunity to) BG is a good place to be. I earned my BFA in creative writing with an art minor there. And I hear there was supposed to be a glass shop built on to the University of Toledo, but haven't heard much since (about a year ago), and from what was said at that time, it wasn't something to be open to the public.
As for why people are leaving, it depends on what you're looking for of course, but for many, there isn't much here. A lot of people who are graduating or have recently find there isn't much if anything here for them, and so they leave for other places. To give you an example from my own search, there was one job here that I saw advertised for an editor. When I went in for an interview, the guy asked me what the area was like in terms of jobs like those. He said he was asking because he didn't expect to receive as many applications as he had. The binder of resumes he had to go through was probably four inches thick...Obviously there's competition for any job, but considering this was a 10/hr part time position (with like 15 hrs a week) that he got that many people says something (at least to me) about the lack of opportunities in the area.
Move to one of the surrounding cities of Toledo, not to Toledo! If you compare Toledo to the surrounding cities you will see there is MUCH LESS the crime per poplulation in the surrounding cities. The mayor calls it Brain Drain, yea, if you have a brain, you get out of the high crime city. That's why over 50,000 people have moved out, yet all the surrounding cities are building and growing in numbers and you can feel MUCH safer. Build a city that you can feel safe in, drugs are not sold on the street corners, prositutes walking the streets, houses being destroyed and people will come. I don't look forward to the summer months, with them closing the city pools, kids will create trouble. We aren't having another police class for a couple of years, and lots of them are retiring and they can't handle it now, if they could we wouldn't have these problems.<P>We have had over 6 homes stripped out in the last 6 months, we don't even put up rent signs any more. The neighbors or us call the police and you will get a 2 hour wait or a no show. One elderly neighbor went to the hospital and her house was stripped out while she was there, so they put her in a nursing home. When houses are stripped or have lead issues, they usually end up boarded up. Of course the mayor likes to boast about tearing down over 300 houses a year, not something I would like to see in my city! You got to think, HOW did they get boarded up to begin with? They don't seem to understand that for every person they catch stripping a house, they could save 50 other houses. Oh, and of course I hear from the police dept that the city of Toledo has a law on the books that if you strip someones house of siding, furnace, cooper plumbing, hot water tank etc or all of the above, its worth less than $500 or just a misdemeanor NOT a felony like you would think. Amazing, if someone steals your diamond ring, it could be a felony, maybe worth more than the $20 they will get at the local pawn shop. Which reminds me, I don't know why we don't start a recylce station ourselves, they thrive big in Toledo. <P>We have 24% or more on government assistance and 40% not paying employment tax and 80% of them using the police, fire and emercency according to our reps in Columbus. We currently have NO grant money for rehabbing older homes or lead paint issues and no one writing them, I checked again today. We are the 7th highest in in the nation in foreclosures right now, hard to rent, hard to sell. <p> I think I hear last week, the mayor is going to be paying thousands of dollars to business relocating workers to live in the city, cause we are in a budget crunch. <p>Oh they tell me to make sure you pay the high property taxes that they just boosted a second time, if you are on a payment plan and mess up, no second chance, they sell your home! In short, what you hear about the crime being bad, its true! The good new is if your looking for a house for sale, there's lots!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duda
My wife and I are considering either moving to Toledo or working their for a time. We are interested in all the arts developments there because we work in our arts community. Some of the things we saw in researching the city online look great and are well developed! I have read some posts about Toledo and appreciate all the great info, but I want to know a couple things.
Two red flags we have: Low price of housing and people leaving the city. What is the deal? Online we saw some great looking houses for great prices. Are these all in crime areas or are housing costs that low? Are people leaving because historically the city has been on a downturn for so long? Is it really on the upswing right now?
]AS FOR CRIME, YOU CAN KEEP SAYING THAT OVER AND OVER. I WAS ONE OF THE VICTIMS IN THE COOK CASE, AND IF I NEVER STEP A FOOT IN TOLEDO AGAIN . I WILL BE HAPPY. I KNOW IT IS NOT TOLEDO;S FAULT FOR WHAT HAD HAPPENED TO ME. BUT I FEEL THAT THEY COULD OF DONE BETTER, IN SOLVING THEIR CRIME. SO IF YOU ARE EVER A VICTIM. GIVE UP ON SOLVING THE CRIME UNTIL YEARS LATER....
I lived in Toledo for quite a few years, as a kid, and then again as an adult for several. There are good and bad areas for crime -- generally, the further from downtown, the better, although there are exceptions. Economy's cyclical with lots of dependence on heavy industry especially automotive. Biggest problem in my opinion is an inferiority complex and a leadership vacuum. Politicians don't count; the places you'd look for leadership (education, biggest companies, philanthropists, 50-pound brains) aren't led locally anymore for the most part. In other words, the money, decision-making, and community interest are largely lacking at the top or living somewhere else. Last real visionary in Toledo in my opinion was Edwin Dodd, Chairman of Owens-Illinois until the mid-80s. Spearheaded downtown redevelopment, inner-city investment, etc. OI's private now, Owens-Corning is in bankruptcy, Jeep's owned by Daimler-Chrysler, etc., etc. Lots of big rust-belt northern cities transformed themselves but Toledo hasn't and may not have the critical mass to do it.
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toledo
Toledo's Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder - I have come to like it here.
Not so much
Move to one of the surrounding cities of Toledo, not to Toledo! If you compare Toledo to the surrounding cities you will see there is MUCH LESS the crime per poplulation in the surrounding cities. The mayor calls it Brain Drain, yea, if you have a brain, you get out of the high crime city. That's why over 50,000 people have moved out, yet all the surrounding cities are building and growing in numbers and you can feel MUCH safer. Build a city that you can feel safe in, drugs are not sold on the street corners, prositutes walking the streets, houses being destroyed and people will come. I don't look forward to the summer months, with them closing the city pools, kids will create trouble. We aren't having another police class for a couple of years, and lots of them are retiring and they can't handle it now, if they could we wouldn't have these problems.<P>We have had over 6 homes stripped out in the last 6 months, we don't even put up rent signs any more. The neighbors or us call the police and you will get a 2 hour wait or a no show. One elderly neighbor went to the hospital and her house was stripped out while she was there, so they put her in a nursing home. When houses are stripped or have lead issues, they usually end up boarded up. Of course the mayor likes to boast about tearing down over 300 houses a year, not something I would like to see in my city! You got to think, HOW did they get boarded up to begin with? They don't seem to understand that for every person they catch stripping a house, they could save 50 other houses. Oh, and of course I hear from the police dept that the city of Toledo has a law on the books that if you strip someones house of siding, furnace, cooper plumbing, hot water tank etc or all of the above, its worth less than $500 or just a misdemeanor NOT a felony like you would think. Amazing, if someone steals your diamond ring, it could be a felony, maybe worth more than the $20 they will get at the local pawn shop. Which reminds me, I don't know why we don't start a recylce station ourselves, they thrive big in Toledo. <P>We have 24% or more on government assistance and 40% not paying employment tax and 80% of them using the police, fire and emercency according to our reps in Columbus. We currently have NO grant money for rehabbing older homes or lead paint issues and no one writing them, I checked again today. We are the 7th highest in in the nation in foreclosures right now, hard to rent, hard to sell. <p> I think I hear last week, the mayor is going to be paying thousands of dollars to business relocating workers to live in the city, cause we are in a budget crunch. <p>Oh they tell me to make sure you pay the high property taxes that they just boosted a second time, if you are on a payment plan and mess up, no second chance, they sell your home! In short, what you hear about the crime being bad, its true! The good new is if your looking for a house for sale, there's lots!
