Houston vs. Dallas (San Antonio, Fort Worth, Arlington: zip codes, ranking, underwater)

[blkgiraffe]

Originally Posted by Spade

Yeah but here's the thing. I don't think New Yorkers care about buses much. Because they fight the same traffic cars fight. So they'd rather walk and NYC is a great walkable city and the stations relatively are really not that far apart.

Well there ridership for the bus system is very impressive, either way people still use the buses.

[ctrres]

Originally Posted by jluke65780

Well there ridership for the bus system is very impressive, either way people still use the buses.

New Yorkers use busses in Manhattan because they're often faster on short hops than traipsing down and up staircases and waiting for the local trains on the same routes. Crosstown they're unbeatable.

[First24]

Originally Posted by Angel713

Fourth largest city, yes, but it was only the seventh largest metro at the time (now it is the sixth largest metro area). You have to start somewhere.

Ahhhh... my mistake. Pro-Houston forumers only like using the 4th largest city banner when it benefits their city when comparing to Dallas.

"You have to start somewhere" is a polite metaphor for saying the Houston regional transit authority has been nonchalant for the past 15 years.

Originally Posted by Angel713

You serious? The ridership is not impressive?? Yeah right. 45,000 a day, for just a four year line is plenty impressive. Plus, it's only 7.5 miles. There is no stretch of rail in DART with this high of ridership.

Yes, very serious. Most cities and the Federal Gov tabulate rail usage in terms of linked and unliked passengers. Linked means the passanger starts at one point then links at other points to arrive at the final destination. Unliked means passengers link at one point then rides directly to the destination. Houston only has one rail line; passengers using METROrail cannot rail link elsewhere meaning you have to return unlinked on the same rail line. METROrail still receives usage credit for the return rail trip, as for passengers who may start at UH then get off downtown then re-enter again and proceed to TMC. Each time the passenger gets on and off, METROrail receives ridership credit. So, of course Houston's rail usage looks astronomical as compared to other cities. As I've previously stated we will have to wait for Houston's rail mileage to increase to determine success in relation to other cities with more developed rail systems.

Are you able to provide a link to a published report of METROrail's official November ridership? I'm not buying your 45,000 number. In Nov 2004 ridership was 32,900, 2Q 2008 ridership 39,500. So, in four years ridership grew by 6,600. You're telling me in just a few months ridership grew by 5,500!?!

Originally Posted by Angel713

Though not rail, Houston's Park and Ride System is very much like a commuter rail system. DART does not have this. The I-10W Park and Ride system alone has more bus riders than the TRE. METRO operates the P&R as its commuter system (for now) until commuter rail is built in the coming years in various directions.

DART didn't have the budget to develop both the LRT and a bus P&R system. An efficient bus transit system is needed to support LRT; no doubt, but you build the rail because it's more budget efficient, cleaner and attracts a wider spectrum patrons.

Originally Posted by Angel713

Don't be surprised to see METRO do the same. Right now, I believe only the North/Blue, University/Orange, and Southeast/Green lines are getting Federal Funding. METRO is paying for the East End/Brown and Uptown/Pink lines.

METRO just may do the same thing, but will have a much tougher climb to the Federal Funding honey pot. DART can show officials it has already built 45 miles of rail primarily by local funding. Whats more, DART and the regional planning commission has a well laid out and achieveable action plan; land, permits, design and route approval etc... already secured. METROrail is still at war with suburban Houston. Good luck...

[Trae713]

Originally Posted by BBQgritz

"You have to start somewhere" is a polite metaphor for saying the Houston regional transit authority has been nonchalant for the past 15 years.

Nope. METRO has been trying to get rail, but it kept getting blocked. They then turned to buses.

Yes, very serious. Most cities and the Federal Gov tabulate rail usage in terms of linked and unliked passengers. Linked means the passanger starts at one point then links at other points to arrive at the final destination. Unliked means passengers link at one point then rides directly to the destination. Houston only has one rail line; passengers using METROrail cannot rail link elsewhere meaning you have to return unlinked on the same rail line. METROrail still receives usage credit for the return rail trip, as for passengers who may start at UH then get off downtown then re-enter again and proceed to TMC. Each time the passenger gets on and off, METROrail receives ridership credit. So, of course Houston's rail usage looks astronomical as compared to other cities. As I've previously stated we will have to wait for Houston's rail mileage to increase to determine success in relation to other cities with more developed rail systems.

The rail line doesn't even go to UH (yet). I don't see what the difference is with what you said, and someone doing the same thing on DART (say, start from Westmoreland Station to Park Place Station and back again). Once more rail lines come in, more people will be served.

Are you able to provide a link to a published report of METROrail's official November ridership? I'm not buying your 45,000 number. In Nov 2004 ridership was 32,900, 2Q 2008 ridership 39,500. So, in four years ridership grew by 6,600. You're telling me in just a few months ridership grew by 5,500!?!

The article that it was in (a press release from METRO's website) has since been removed, but here is the the next closest thing I could find for right now: http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/...2&hl=ridership

DART didn't have the budget to develop both the LRT and a bus P&R system. An efficient bus transit system is needed to support LRT; no doubt, but you build the rail because it's more budget efficient, cleaner and attracts a wider spectrum patrons.

Well, maybe you should see who rides the P&R system that METRO put in (an average of 40,000 use it daily). With newspapers, laptop carrying cases, and briefcases in hand, dressed in suits and business attire. The P&R system works well and everyone uses it. METRO can't add more transit centers fast enough. Hell, they're using a movie theater parking lot in both western Katy and Pearland for now.

METRO just may do the same thing, but will have a much tougher climb to the Federal Funding honey pot. DART can show officials it has already built 45 miles of rail primarily by local funding. Whats more, DART and the regional planning commission has a well laid out and achieveable action plan; land, permits, design and route approval etc... already secured. METROrail is still at war with suburban Houston. Good luck...

DART got plenty of federal funding for its line. It didn't build it by itself. METRO built its first line all by itself with no help. Dallas wouldn't have what it has now if it was not for the Feds. As for getting money from the Feds, the only thing METRO is doing now is finishing designing on some lines (Uptown/Pink, University/Orange) and studies are wrapping up for one other line (Southeast/Green).

The only war METRO is at now is other suburban communities (Cypress, Sugar Land, and Pearland especially) wanting rail badly. These areas WANT commuter rail. There was a Houston Chronicle on it. If it wasn't for Sugar Land's own Tom Delay, METRO would be so far ahead than what is currently there right now. Luckily, he is out of the picture now.

No offense, but you need to do some research before acting like you know what's going on with METRO.

[Mustang85]

Originally Posted by Guerilla

I felt the same way when I first went to Dallas. I was like man this place looks nice, but after about 30 minutes driving around, I was like can we go back to Houston?

How many times do i have to tell you, Dallas is bigger, better, and a better place to live than houston. Houston will be underwater in a couple years anyway.

[majicdonjuan]

Originally Posted by Mustang85

How many times do i have to tell you, Dallas is bigger, better, and a better place to live than houston. Houston will be underwater in a couple years anyway.

Bigger, better, AND better! Man I guess I should move to Dallas! NOT! I can swim anyway!

[blkgiraffe]

Originally Posted by Mustang85

How many times do i have to tell you, Dallas is bigger, better, and a better place to live than houston. Houston will be underwater in a couple years anyway.

and Dallas will be destroyed by a tornado

[stoneclaw]

And Dallas is only bigger with the help up Fort Worth, Arlington, Grand Prarie, Irving, Plano, Frisco, Carrolton, and etc.

[Synopsis]

Everybody loves Big KLIF in old Big D!

[metroplex2003]

Originally Posted by Synopsis

The 7.5 mile stretch has such high ridership because it is only 7.5 miles.

Once the rail system spreads out to the rest of the metro, ridership per mile will go down. It is simple statistics.

Houston has an inferior rail system to the DFW metro; get over it already.

Also keep in mind that DFW is expanding their light rail as well.
Ft. Worth is making the Southwest line that will be going directly into DFW Int'l.
The Green/Orange line will serve as far north as Denton, and also into a highly dense Las Colinas Urban Center (see denisfication of Las Colinas) and into DFW airport, which should increase the numbers greatly for business and international travelers. The Orange line will serve DFW airport.
Finally, the Cottonbelt line will also serve DFW airport. The airport link by itself will increase daily ridership greatly as it gives DART access to non-local people traveling to the region.

St. Louis' Metrolink gets lots of ridership from Lambert Int'l that are not local people.

With the Orange/Green line connecting Love Field and DFW Int'l to Las Colinas, Downtown Dallas, and possibly Ft. Worth via the Southwest line as well as the Richardson Telecom cooridor and Tollway district, lots of travelers will hopefully increase ridership by large amounts.

We shall see...it's hard to predict...