Why are Seatte/Puget Sound girls such flakes and so picky? - dating scene sucks here (Seattle: broker, assessment)
Seattle areaSeattle and King County Suburbs
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We don't need open discussion or an exchange of ideas because we can just insult our interlocutor or gaslight him by telling him he's just crazy instead of engaging him. /s
Of course not every anecdote is reliable or useful, but every anecdote is more data.
Disagree?
Supply your own anecdote and add to the collection.
Typical dictatorial mentality...
Just because some don't like somebody else's story doesn't mean everybody else should be prohibited from hearing it. Let readers use their own judgement to sort it out, interpret and evaluate it to decide if it's worth taking into consideration for their own conclusions.
Brother Finance2Tech,
Courage.
I'm drafting a bit of a reflection on some of your story, but I need to clean it up a bit before punishing everybody by uploading my usual stream of consciousness.
It's not gaslighting to make light of the same group of people repeatedly disparaging the entire female population of a city in a never-ending circle-jerk whenever someone revives an old Seattle dating thread. It's like a broken record in here.
It's not gaslighting to make light of the same group of people repeatedly disparaging the entire female population of a city in a never-ending circle-jerk whenever someone revives an old Seattle dating thread. It's like a broken record in here.
I can't speak for the others on this thread, only about my personal experiences based on having lived in and dated in multiple cities: NYC, Chicago, Seattle. Of course, not EVERY woman in Seattle is like that, and if you really think that was my argument, then you need to re-read the posts. If you disagree with my assessment of the Seattle dating scene for men, then feel free to disagree. We are all entitled to our opinions.
I will summarize my core argument so that there is no more misinterpretation or responses that aim to be "clever."
The advantages of NYC over Seattle are as follows:
1. Great gender ratio
2. High volume of single women from all over the world, who are eager to meet new people and date
3. Relatively little ghosting and flaking; in NYC, when I matched with a woman online, it resulted in a first date like 90% of the time. In Seattle, it's closer to 10%.
4. In terms of looks, intelligence, accomplishments, and overall quality, NYC women are far superior to Seattle (please note that I'm talking at the aggregate level and certainly am not saying that no woman in Seattle is like that).
5. NYC is a truly diverse urban cosmopolitan center, and that has positive implications for the overall social and dating scene.
In sharp contrast, Seattle does not enjoy any of these advantages, hence why I feel that it is one of the worst major U.S. cities for single men.
Last edited by Finance2Tech; 11-07-2017 at 03:56 PM..
It's not gaslighting to make light of the same group of people repeatedly disparaging the entire female population of a city in a never-ending circle-jerk whenever someone revives an old Seattle dating thread. It's like a broken record in here.
One of the things I've noticed not just in this forum, but in Seattle in general, is how thin-skinned people are and how personally they take things. Sure Finance2Tech might have been able to phrase things more delicately, diplomatically or precisely, but it's an informal forum... Why do people react with such hostility as if from 0-60? So what if somebody doesn't like at or doesn't feel like he fits in here? It's just not a match. No hard feelings. Why take it all so personally?
I'll be clear. Whenever I criticize or complain about Seattle, it's not necessarily that I'm claiming that saying the place is "bad" but rather explaining what has or hasn't worked for me... and why I suspect the place might not be a match for me. The city has many redeeming qualities to be sure... but everybody has different styles, values and priorities. If we're not supposed discuss to various local cultures frankly, the good, the bad and the ugly; and may only share anodyne praise for everything about a place, then there really isn't much point for having a city-data forum.
Finance2Tech seems to love NYC. Good for him. He's taking the time to share why he finds it better and makes more sense for him. I'm as good as 100% certain that I'd hate life in NYC, but it's interesting to read about his experience and what he values about it.
The whole phenomenon of rootlessly "shopping" for a new hometown is kind of uniquely American and weird. It's probably a lot like dating. Every trait can at the same time be a strength but brings inseparable disadvantages. For example some will will love "down-to-earth" where others will see "unsophisticated with limited horizons." They might prefer "educated, well-travelled and worldly" while others can't stand the pretension and snobbishness. Some will see the outstanding opportunities, energy and prosperity, others will see the competition, stress and congestion. There will be places where you feel at home, where your wavelength is more in sync with the rest of the culture than others. If there's a match, great! Stay. Live your life and maybe share something positive about why it's a match for you or how you made it work? Maybe a few of the struggling newcomers will be inspired by the energy and example and find something to love too?
The forum here is not just to learn about unfamiliar places but also to explore one's own heart to become more self-aware of what one's values in life are to be able to strike a balance among them. So it's disappointing, if unsurprising when so many come here to put-down or mock contributors who've taken time to spill their hearts into pixels for our entertainment. So many "know-it-alls" who come for drive-by pot-shots to put down contributors makes me wonder if they're somehow insecure themselves and feel better by mocking a contributor, calling him crazy or implying he's ignorant by "correcting" him with their own smug yet ignorant half-informed and often completely inaccurate and incorrect statements.
Odd how this reminds me of so many encounters I've experienced in real life around here...
Before somebody interjects accusing me of believing, "Not all people in Seattle are like that!"
Is everybody like that? Of course not. But in my brief time here, I can confidently say, "Way too many for my pleasure."
Before I move on I'd like to add one very interesting remark I heard not so long ago from a fellow who has dated extensively around the country and around the world. He's no cad, but some might still call him a bit of a pick-up artist. One evening I was whining, as I am wont to do, specifically about the unfavorable demographics tilted against single men in Seattle. He got philosophical and conceded, that yes it's bad. Single men do vastly outnumber women here and the women don't have to bring their "A-Game" charm here like they'd need to in other more balanced cities. But he compared it specifically to New York and explained; in NY the numbers just look good at first, but the men are so much more aggressive, polished and competitive, it's still anything but easy. In fact he claimed that a guy of modest value with relatively weak game can still shine in Seattle when compared to the rest of the passive and uninspiring competition in a way he never could in NY if he can at least find a little confidence and bring a little charm. I still don't think I was convinced and I think he might have just been trying to be encouraging. Yet it doesn't seem completely implausible... Perhaps others can share their own experiences that confirm or undermine that theory?
One of the things I've noticed not just in this forum, but in Seattle in general, is how thin-skinned people are and how personally they take things. Sure Finance2Tech might have been able to phrase things more delicately, diplomatically or precisely, but it's an informal forum... Why do people react with such hostility as if from 0-60? So what if somebody doesn't like at or doesn't feel like he fits in here? It's just not a match. No hard feelings. Why take it all so personally?
I'll be clear. Whenever I criticize or complain about Seattle, it's not necessarily that I'm claiming that saying the place is "bad" but rather explaining what has or hasn't worked for me... and why I suspect the place might not be a match for me. The city has many redeeming qualities to be sure... but everybody has different styles, values and priorities. If we're not supposed discuss to various local cultures frankly, the good, the bad and the ugly; and may only share anodyne praise for everything about a place, then there really isn't much point for having a city-data forum.
Finance2Tech seems to love NYC. Good for him. He's taking the time to share why he finds it better and makes more sense for him. I'm as good as 100% certain that I'd hate life in NYC, but it's interesting to read about his experience and what he values about it.
The whole phenomenon of rootlessly "shopping" for a new hometown is kind of uniquely American and weird. It's probably a lot like dating. Every trait can at the same time be a strength but brings inseparable disadvantages. For example some will will love "down-to-earth" where others will see "unsophisticated with limited horizons." They might prefer "educated, well-travelled and worldly" while others can't stand the pretension and snobbishness. Some will see the outstanding opportunities, energy and prosperity, others will see the competition, stress and congestion. There will be places where you feel at home, where your wavelength is more in sync with the rest of the culture than others. If there's a match, great! Stay. Live your life and maybe share something positive about why it's a match for you or how you made it work? Maybe a few of the struggling newcomers will be inspired by the energy and example and find something to love too?
The forum here is not just to learn about unfamiliar places but also to explore one's own heart to become more self-aware of what one's values in life are to be able to strike a balance among them. So it's disappointing, if unsurprising when so many come here to put-down or mock contributors who've taken time to spill their hearts into pixels for our entertainment. So many "know-it-alls" who come for drive-by pot-shots to put down contributors makes me wonder if they're somehow insecure themselves and feel better by mocking a contributor, calling him crazy or implying he's ignorant by "correcting" him with their own smug yet ignorant half-informed and often completely inaccurate and incorrect statements.
Odd how this reminds me of so many encounters I've experienced in real life around here...
Before somebody interjects accusing me of believing, "Not all people in Seattle are like that!"
Is everybody like that? Of course not. But in my brief time here, I can confidently say, "Way too many for my pleasure."
Before I move on I'd like to add one very interesting remark I heard not so long ago from a fellow who has dated extensively around the country and around the world. He's no cad, but some might still call him a bit of a pick-up artist. One evening I was whining, as I am wont to do, specifically about the unfavorable demographics tilted against single men in Seattle. He got philosophical and conceded, that yes it's bad. Single men do vastly outnumber women here and the women don't have to bring their "A-Game" charm here like they'd need to in other more balanced cities. But he compared it specifically to New York and explained; in NY the numbers just look good at first, but the men are so much more aggressive, polished and competitive, it's still anything but easy. In fact he claimed that a guy of modest value with relatively weak game can still shine in Seattle when compared to the rest of the passive and uninspiring competition in a way he never could in NY if he can at least find a little confidence and bring a little charm. I still don't think I was convinced and I think he might have just been trying to be encouraging. Yet it doesn't seem completely implausible... Perhaps others can share their own experiences that confirm or undermine that theory?
Excellent post. I will address the last paragraph since I lived in NYC.
Your friend is correct that there are a lot of polished alpha successful men in NYC. The truly elite model quality women will go for those types, and for mere mortals, they are not accessible. NYC really shines in the following ways:
1. Well-educated men with decent jobs (doesn't even have to be super fancy), decent looking, above average height, will do really well in terms of both quantity and quality. It is super easy to date and get laid on a consistent basis. In terms of quality, you can get women who are more attractive than you are. The super rich and good looking guys get the top notch women, but due to the gender ratio and many of the men in NYC being gay, that still leaves a ton of attractive solid women who need guys.
2. Online dating is INSANE in NYC. It's like a buffett of endless dating opportunities. So I'm on all the apps: Tinder, Bumble, Coffee Meets Bagel, Hinge, League, Happn. In NYC I was bombarded with matches, with around 90% leading to at least a first date. On an average week I had several dates lined up, and I had to maintain an Excel spreadsheet to keep track of all the women I was seeing. Since moving to Seattle about a year ago, I have gotten around 15-20 matches TOTAL and just ONE date, despite using the same apps I used in NYC and swiping every day. With the matches that I did get, the women either ghosted or flaked. Women in Seattle have so many options that unless you are their absolute first choice, they will stop responding. It's also worth noting that I'm actually better looking now than I was in NYC due to losing weight and putting on more lean muscles. My profile pics are also superior to what they were in NYC. The difference between the two cities is so stark that it's both depressing and incomprehensible. Before moving here, I just thought that Seattle would be slightly below NYC but have been shocked at just how bad it is for single men. NYC literally exists on a different universe from Seattle.
I moved here for a pretty solid job but am unhappier now than at almost any point in my adult life. Location matters. A LOT. Seattle has been a nightmare, and I cannot wait to move out soon.
What bugs me about these threads is that it's always the woman's fault because the OP isn't finding women who are as good looking as they feel they deserve. This comes off as an insult to women in Seattle, like their job is to be hot for the tech guys coming to live. The styling isn't super traditional here - not all high heels, makeup, done up hair. But the more casual style comes with the territory, just like you might expect more makeup and bigger hair in Texas.
Fundamentally it all comes down to looks, and apparently some of the tech guys that move here like the more traditional feminine look. Well, you moved to the wrong place, as Finance 2 Tech can tell you.
I also wonder if their expectations are realistic. Are these guys staying within their reasonable ranges? Or are they a 5 guy who thinks that they need an 8 or above gal? Tech guys have never been the top of the dating heap, so 8 women aren't going to throw themselves at average guy 5s, especially ones with bad attitudes and average sized wallets.
It seems the ladies aren't crazy about the tech guys either. "The tech boom in Seattle is bringing in droves of successful, straight single guys. And as any woman will tell you: You don't want to date any of them."
Try this: Eff the intenet dating. Practice talking to women in real life. Do that by going out more, engaging in activities that are fun for you. Yoga, Spanish language meet up, etc. Whatever it is that you enjoy doing and makes you happy, personable and fun, do that. You will increase your speaking skills, ability to connect with others and you’ll ineitably begin to meet women. I think your entire issue is the internet. It makes it too easy for people to meet and sell themselves without making any real connection.
Also, ya, I wouldn’t want to try dating up there. Seems like a harder than normal atmosphere to meet women. Than again, that’s the case in a lot of big cities.
One of the things I've noticed not just in this forum, but in Seattle in general, is how thin-skinned people are and how personally they take things. Sure Finance2Tech might have been able to phrase things more delicately, diplomatically or precisely, but it's an informal forum... Why do people react with such hostility as if from 0-60? So what if somebody doesn't like at or doesn't feel like he fits in here? It's just not a match. No hard feelings. Why take it all so personally?
I'll be clear. Whenever I criticize or complain about Seattle, it's not necessarily that I'm claiming that saying the place is "bad" but rather explaining what has or hasn't worked for me... and why I suspect the place might not be a match for me. The city has many redeeming qualities to be sure... but everybody has different styles, values and priorities. If we're not supposed discuss to various local cultures frankly, the good, the bad and the ugly; and may only share anodyne praise for everything about a place, then there really isn't much point for having a city-data forum.
Finance2Tech seems to love NYC. Good for him. He's taking the time to share why he finds it better and makes more sense for him. I'm as good as 100% certain that I'd hate life in NYC, but it's interesting to read about his experience and what he values about it.
The whole phenomenon of rootlessly "shopping" for a new hometown is kind of uniquely American and weird. It's probably a lot like dating. Every trait can at the same time be a strength but brings inseparable disadvantages. For example some will will love "down-to-earth" where others will see "unsophisticated with limited horizons." They might prefer "educated, well-travelled and worldly" while others can't stand the pretension and snobbishness. Some will see the outstanding opportunities, energy and prosperity, others will see the competition, stress and congestion. There will be places where you feel at home, where your wavelength is more in sync with the rest of the culture than others. If there's a match, great! Stay. Live your life and maybe share something positive about why it's a match for you or how you made it work? Maybe a few of the struggling newcomers will be inspired by the energy and example and find something to love too?
The forum here is not just to learn about unfamiliar places but also to explore one's own heart to become more self-aware of what one's values in life are to be able to strike a balance among them. So it's disappointing, if unsurprising when so many come here to put-down or mock contributors who've taken time to spill their hearts into pixels for our entertainment. So many "know-it-alls" who come for drive-by pot-shots to put down contributors makes me wonder if they're somehow insecure themselves and feel better by mocking a contributor, calling him crazy or implying he's ignorant by "correcting" him with their own smug yet ignorant half-informed and often completely inaccurate and incorrect statements.
Odd how this reminds me of so many encounters I've experienced in real life around here...
Before somebody interjects accusing me of believing, "Not all people in Seattle are like that!"
Is everybody like that? Of course not. But in my brief time here, I can confidently say, "Way too many for my pleasure."
Before I move on I'd like to add one very interesting remark I heard not so long ago from a fellow who has dated extensively around the country and around the world. He's no cad, but some might still call him a bit of a pick-up artist. One evening I was whining, as I am wont to do, specifically about the unfavorable demographics tilted against single men in Seattle. He got philosophical and conceded, that yes it's bad. Single men do vastly outnumber women here and the women don't have to bring their "A-Game" charm here like they'd need to in other more balanced cities. But he compared it specifically to New York and explained; in NY the numbers just look good at first, but the men are so much more aggressive, polished and competitive, it's still anything but easy. In fact he claimed that a guy of modest value with relatively weak game can still shine in Seattle when compared to the rest of the passive and uninspiring competition in a way he never could in NY if he can at least find a little confidence and bring a little charm. I still don't think I was convinced and I think he might have just been trying to be encouraging. Yet it doesn't seem completely implausible... Perhaps others can share their own experiences that confirm or undermine that theory?
Your friend is right. As I and others have posted here over the last few years, the friendly, outgoing guys clean up, because everyone else is so reserved, that the few friendly guys are the only ones talking to women out IRL. Maybe one reason the "selection" isn't as good on OLD here as in NYC is that a higher percentage of women in Seattle are out there meeting men (or trying to) the old-fashioned way: by joining the neighborhood soccer league, going hiking with the Mountaineers, joining dance groups (salsa, swing, etc.), and so forth. I've noticed here that our 20-something guys tend to avoid real-life mingling of that nature, and think OLD is where it's at, even when it's not working for them.
I don't know what snobbishness and pretension has to do with being well-educated and well-travelled. It's possible to be down-to-earth, and well-travelled and educated, at the same time. Quite a few Seattle women manage that particular juggling act, as Treuphax makes it sound. It comes naturally.
I also don't know why some guys believe Seattle women aren't well-educated and well-travelled. All my gf's but one in Seattle are very well-travelled, are multi-lingual, and have advanced degrees, some have several. They don't go to bars and the kind of clubs Fin2Tech enjoys, though. And they probably wouldn't meet FinTech's standards, because they don't wear makeup or poof up their hair.
Again, these are issues of West Coast culture, not Seattle women. East is East, West is West. If you can't appreciate the unique features of those areas, and adapt, you have the right to go back to your comfort zone, and enjoy your bubble. It's not a big deal. To each his/her own.
We don't need open discussion or an exchange of ideas because we can just insult our interlocutor or gaslight him by telling him he's just crazy instead of engaging him. /s
Of course not every anecdote is reliable or useful, but every anecdote is more data.
Disagree?
Supply your own anecdote and add to the collection.
Typical dictatorial mentality...
Just because some don't like somebody else's story doesn't mean everybody else should be prohibited from hearing it. Let readers use their own judgement to sort it out, interpret and evaluate it to decide if it's worth taking into consideration for their own conclusions.
Brother Finance2Tech,
Courage.
I'm drafting a bit of a reflection on some of your story, but I need to clean it up a bit before punishing everybody by uploading my usual stream of consciousness.
Look forward to a follow-up soon.
Better yet, keep it going. This is HILARIOUS reading. Carry on...
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