Marin County and Asians??? (Oakland, Berkeley: house, safe neighborhoods, school)

[tramky]

Someone made a good point. Communities ARE oriented more around economics, and that is NOT always racially oriented. On the other hand, when people who know the social arrangements in the Bay Area talk about Oakland, Richmond and even Vallejo, it is understood what is being discussed: concentration of blacks. And that is viewed differently than concentrations of Asians and even Hispanics. The 'problem' with black communities is seen as social and, more importantly, behavioral. What is meant by 'the problem' is black violence, usually but not always black-on-black violence. Regular reports of gunshots on neighborhood streets are concentrated in black neighborhoods, and random shootings tend to be concentrated in black neighborhoods.

This is, by the way, all too bad. The problems that plague these communities are entrenched and ARE, as the other poster suggested, due largely to economic factors. But it is a vicious circle as we have understood for many decades: economics-schools-jobs-economics.

There is one other thing--discrimination does not equate to racism. People discriminate all the time in almost all aspects of their lives. The ability to discriminate is part of our natural, human condition. We discriminate--make choices--on many, many things in our lives: what towels to buy, what cars, what people we become friends with, what laundry detergent we prefer. And we discriminate concerning where we choose to live.

As for Marin & any other affluent location in the Bay Area and around the world, money buys you into anything except social circles, and if you've got the juice you can live anywhere you choose. And no one from the core neighborhoods in Richmond are moving to Marin, where the median price of a house is over $900,000, and a basic, nondescript house in Novato is over $600,000. Say what you will, but high housing prices tends to keep the riffraff out, and the powers that be in Marin have become quite good at keeping housing prices high.

[skatealoneskatetogether]

none of this negates the fact of course that marin would be a good place to raise a family. especially if you are white.

[ladysrodgers]

Originally Posted by gizmo980

I even picked up a bit of Chinese while working there, and learning new languages is never a bad thing... plus I can get my nails done for $8, clothing tailored for $10, and all the veggies & herbs you could imagine.

LOL You can't beat that!

[Milliano]

Originally Posted by gizmo980

Yes, things have changed quite a bit recently, from what I have been told (I've lived here less than a year)... like I said, my estimate was just that - a guess - but it's most definitely higher than 30-50%!! I worked at the public libraries on San Bruno Ave. & Leland Ave., and the majority of our patrons were Chinese. There was some diversity, but not a whole lot, especially at the Portola branch (VV has a decent number of Latino & Black residents). Just walk down those streets sometime, and you'll see how heavily Chinese it is now - you literally feel like you're in Shanghai! Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. I even picked up a bit of Chinese while working there, and learning new languages is never a bad thing... plus I can get my nails done for $8, clothing tailored for $10, and all the veggies & herbs you could imagine.

Thanks for the info... nice pictures! I'd love to check it out. I don't know if it's true but I read some places, and also by judging by census stats, that the Chinese on the southern area of SF are a bit more likely to speak Cantonese, and also less likely to speak English, than the Chinese in the Sunset. Any idea on the truth to that?

Shanghai with far less air pollution... mmm sounds lovely

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by Milliano

Thanks for the info... nice pictures! I'd love to check it out. I don't know if it's true but I read some places, and also by judging by census stats, that the Chinese on the southern area of SF are a bit more likely to speak Cantonese, and also less likely to speak English, than the Chinese in the Sunset. Any idea on the truth to that?

I would guess that's true, but don't have any stats to back it up... I lived in the Sunset briefly after high school (1994-95), and found that most people spoke English just fine. Here in the southeast, you'll find a LOT of non-English speakers - and while there are plenty speaking Mandarin, I'd say that Cantonese is more common. The reasons behind this are purely economics, since the SE is a poorer (and thus more immigrant) community, whereas the Sunset is a bit more affluent. Cool how we have so many cultures here, isn't it?

[whoIam]

Originally Posted by gizmo980

Leland Ave. in Visitacion Valley:

It doesn't feel like Shanghai to me:


I know this is off-topic, but... many an immigrant has been sorely disappointed to find themselves stuck in a poor imitation of their homeland after trading in everything they knew for the chance to live the American dream. While I agree that it is largely economics that keeps the poor immigrants in the poor neighborhoods (that and the networks many rely on), not all immigrants are poor-- it often depends upon the basis they are allowed to enter the US in the first place.

[ladysrodgers]

Originally Posted by whoIam

It doesn't feel like Shanghai to me:


I know this is off-topic, but... many an immigrant has been sorely disappointed to find themselves stuck in a poor imitation of their homeland after trading in everything they knew for the chance to live the American dream. While I agree that it is largely economics that keeps the poor immigrants in the poor neighborhoods (that and the networks many rely on), not all immigrants are poor-- it often depends upon the basis they are allowed to enter the US in the first place.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but it "seems" like you're saying immigrants are expecting neighborhoods in America, to look like they did in their home land. Am I correct?

[whoIam]

Originally Posted by ladysrodgers

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but it "seems" like you're saying immigrants are expecting neighborhoods in America, to look like they did in their home land. Am I correct?

No, I'm trying to say that many expect living in a new country to be very different (that is, in a positive way) only to find out that the good life is just as inaccessible as in than their homeland. In other words, "the grass isn't greener.." I was also responding to the suggestion that poor neighborhoods have more immigrant inhabitants, since there is a perception that immigrants are poor. That's not true, just as not all Americans "have it made".

[Hobart]

I have lived here in Asia for 12 years. I was an East Asian Studies Major at the University of Virginia and I speak rather fluent Mandarin Chinese. My wife is also Taiwanese. Furthermore, I just got back from a trip to Marin with my family to see if we want to move there.

Asians are FRUGAL and Chinese in particular. They do not go in for overpriced houses. Overpriced cars are another matter as are expensive watches, gold and diamonds. They are business people at heart, e.g., the English translation of the Chinese word for business is "The Meaning of Life". Business people hate to overpay for anything and strive to be the one selling the over priced item, not the fool buying the over priced item. They also do not care so much about a view, nor about gourmet super markets and sailing, etc. They care about convenience the most. They love excellent public transportation so that their 70+ mother can get to the supermarket without them having to drive her. If that grandma can walk there even better. They also like to be around other Asians and the love to live on top of each other as they feel there is safety in numbers, security living close to others and ultimately utter convenience of so many people living packed together it is good for business. Put up a shop there and you will have plenty of customers in walking distance, short driving distance etc. They like to live in the high-tech areas, Silicon Valley, because their parents encouraged or almost forced them to only study practical skills in University that they can use to get a job, like engineering.

As one of the other posters said, Marin county is not racist at all. I think hardly any areas around the Bay Area could be considered racist. This is a free country and Asians can choose to live anywhere they want. Asians however do not choose to live in sparsely populated, inconvenient, overpriced and mostly white place like Marin.

Anyway, a lot of my analysis doesn't hold true for the generations of Asians born in the United States even less for the 2nd Gen. Children born to Asians born in the USA. But it does somewhat, because that old lady and old man will still go and live with his American born son until he dies as that is part of that sons duty in the close knit Chinese family, that and the old guy probably paid the deposit! Hehehe...

[batransplant]

I think this style of living makes the most sense. It is also the most practical for raising children. You will have a built in support system of people to help care for young children if both parents are professionals and work during the day, instead of having to use daycares. They will also be bilingual which is very useful.