How do you determine your morality? (birth control, Christian, believer, Adam)

[alicenevada]

In my opinion, that is the lazy 'christian'. yes, according to webster, you may be a 'christian' if you just believe christ is you savior I suppose. But I believe the biblical examples we are given are there for a reason. And they did not believe you could just 'believe' and be a christian...you have to actually follow the teachings of christ. It's just that simple.

For the sake of this discussion, however, I will discard the use of the world 'True'.

[brittZ]

Originally Posted by alicenavada

So Christ expected perfectionof us? How do you figure that? Following Christ's teachings is absolutely possible even allowing for imperfection. He would never have taught that we should be perfect...just that we should do our best. A True Christian tries his best. It's not supposed to be 'easy'. That is why Paul said he had to 'pummel his body and lead it as slave'. We have inherited imperfection and must fight these tendencies on a daily basis. But making mistakes and willingly practicing wrongdoing are NOT the same thing.

That is not even close to what I said; it is the opposite. Your post made is sound very much as if a Christian fell that they could not be a true Christian. From this post I can see that we are saying the same thing.

[brittZ]

Can we please move a little closer to the OP? There is a thread for determining basic Christian believes and what makes a Christian.

[alicenevada]

My moralityis defined by my Christian beliefs. I thought that WAS the topic???

I read my first post over and still don't see how that is any different than what I posted above but oh well.

[arguy1973]

Originally Posted by alicenavada

My moralityis defined by my Christian beliefs. I thought that WAS the topic???

I read my first post over and still don't see how that is any different than what I posted above but oh well.

it was the "true" part that made the difference

[alicenevada]

Originally Posted by arguy1973

it was the "true" part that made the difference

I feel that sometimes the word is necessary because there are so many people out there that are claiming to be christian but are going directly against Christ's teachings and that just makes no sense to me. But whatever.

[brittZ]

Originally Posted by stretch00

Ultimately, thinking people determine morality. They can use a variety of methods to do this. I described rule utilitarianism earlier, that is one method of deciding. You can slavishly follow the dictates in a 2000 year old book of fairy tales as a second method. Social contract theory is a third. I could go on.

I will reiterate that in utilitarianism, one weighs the good and harm caused by any action. There is no need for a higher power.



But of course man decides what is morally virtuous. I never meant to imply otherwise. Morality does not exist without man, and is a construct of our consciousness. It has no existence in and of itself.

Sure, societies can and do make mistakes. I said that already. Why would you not think that society puts its opinion on moral issues. Take my example of slavery. It is wrong (based on utilitarian theory that it causes great harm), but many societies decided that it was right, or that they would do it anyway.

So what?

Dont you see the contradiction in what you are saying? If society and man determines what is morally virtuous, and societies determine that slavery is moral then you can have your opinion that they made a wrong choice but by your definition that society determines morals - you would be wrong. Otherwise, if you say society determined slavery to be moral but you know it is immoral, then there is an inherent morality to everything that was put in place outside of man's control.

If society makes the determination of morality, they are setting the precedent for morality. They cannot be wrong as in your example of slavery unless there was an inerent morality outside of man's desire.

For that matter if you want to say that slavery was wrong because it causes great harm, did it not benefit the slave owners? Were their lives not made easier, more productive, and more profitable by the use of slavery? So if man determines morality, the slave owners were morally just in deciding to use slaves because it created a great benefit for all members of their soceity and only harmED a small percentage of another society - they were only stealing one loaf of bread so to speak. However, the slaves were morally just in determining slavery was wrong and a mistreatment of humans. Who was right? Both societies made a moral decision that, if morality is a constrcut of man determined by the members of society and has no inherent existence in and of itself, would be morally virtuous.
***DISCLAIMER, SLAVERY WAS AND IS AN ABOMINATION AND I DO NOT SUPPORT IT, WE ARE SIMPLY USING IT AS AN EXAMPLE OF MORALITY.***

[brittZ]

Originally Posted by alicenavada

My moralityis defined by my Christian beliefs. I thought that WAS the topic???

I read my first post over and still don't see how that is any different than what I posted above but oh well.

the topic is how you determine your morality. We were moving into what makes a Christian a Christian. Forgive me if I am wrong, but I sense a certain hostility in your posts to me and I dont know why.

[Pathwalker]

Originally Posted by stretch00

I don't know why it did not occur to me to write this earlier.

The christians on this thread seem to be arguing that there is a need for objective morality given by god, and that it is found in the bible.

If that is true, how do you explain the changing morality exhibited by christians throughout history? As a few examples, christians have:

participated in the slave trade--opposed the slave trade,
conducted the inquisition--founded hospitals,
slaughtered one another brutally and by the thousands during the reformation over their religious views,
supported capital punishment--opposed capital punishment,
committed genocide--fought against genocide

How does this show that christians have some objective, unchanging view of morality? It seems to me that christian morality is just as subjective and man made as any other.

All I'm saying is that it is God who truly determines what is moral and what is immoral. He has the final word. There are simply too many different interpretations of the Bible and too many diverse opinions for man to be able to make the call.

I'll try to address what you said above, but I need to come back to it later.....getting ready to run out somewhere.

[Mark S.]

Originally Posted by brittZ

How do you determine your morality?

My wife tells me what to do and I obey.