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I wanted to branch off to another area here based on a post I made in one of the many debates about homosexuality. I DO NOT want to discuss homosexuality here as there are plenty of threads for that. Instead I am curious to see how people determine their morality from a Christian standpoint and a non-believer standpoint. Here are my thoughts to open the discussion.
If you allow your own inner conscious to be your moral compass and trust it to steer you to what is right then you are being led by a faulty compass. You can shift it up or down based on what you allow yourself to be subjected to. That is why it will never work to say that it feels right or natural so it must be ok.
Well assuming that flipping a coin is out as an option () I usually treat others the way I would like to be treated, seems to work out well for all.
What one may see as beneficial, another may see as harmful.
Beneficial is causing the greatest good overall. This is the essence of rule utilitarianism vs act utilitarianism.
It is an easy enough thing to say that slavery is bad. Why? Because only one small group (slave owners) benefit, while many (slaves) suffer. Therefore, in rule utilitarianism (RU henceforth) slavery is bad because of the balance between benefit and suffering.
My personal morality is based on my life experiences and my sense of right and wrong. Religion tends to claim that it is the basis for human morality and I'm talking about all religions but I think that people are just taking common human judgements that we all make everyday and trying to enshrine them with a religious basis. Human beings could not exist as a species if we were not nurturing and cooperative with each other. Any violent or cruel act tends to undermine the structure of society and the family. The overwhelming majority of people realize that at some deep level and act accordingly. As societies have developed and become more complex certain kinds of behavior are generally recognized as either being helpful or hurtful to humanity and people have responded by promoting that which is good and punishing that which is destructive. It's in our best interests to do this and of course it becomes deeply ingrained in our psychology and is passed from one generation to the next. Our ethics and sense of morality have become interwoven in every form of human activity. Our own personal experiences reinforce this sense of morality and it becomes deeply rooted.
Interesting. As a Christian I have never thought jewelry wearing was wrong. Were you menonite?
I was raised in a church that thought dancing and drinking were wrong. I personally disagree and attend a church now where dancing isn't considered wrong and drinking is a personal choice, but is discouraged.
I think morality for me has less to do with personal convictions on these things though.
I am more concerned about how people treat others and how much they care for those who are less fortunate or who need help. Jesus had a lot to say about the poor, how we spend our money and how we care for our fellow man. I believe Americans are the worst at this. We live in a very self-absorbed world where people are concerned more about keeping up appearances than in who is going hungry tonight.
Dawn
I was raised as a Seventh Day Adventist, they have many unusual ideas, they also believe its wrong to eat pork products any kind of seafood that doesn't have gills or scales...that too I have cast aside.
Location: Somewhere along the path to where I'd like to be.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch00
Beneficial is causing the greatest good overall. This is the essence of rule utilitarianism vs act utilitarianism.
It is an easy enough thing to say that slavery is bad. Why? Because only one small group (slave owners) benefit, while many (slaves) suffer. Therefore, in rule utilitarianism (RU henceforth) slavery is bad because of the balance between benefit and suffering.
This moral balancing is obvious.
But what if, for example, the majority benefits from legalized, taxed prostitution. Does that mean prostitution is morally good?
I was raised as a Seventh Day Adventist, they have many unusual ideas, they also believe its wrong to eat pork products any kind of seafood that doesn't have gills or scales...that too I have cast aside.
Wow!! I dont mean to go OP in my own thread nor to bash seventh day adventists but it seems as though there is some picking and choosing there as well as some misinterpretations of the Bible. I think that the reference to not wearing jewlery comes from a couple versus in Timothy (if my memory serves me) in which the point wasnt that women not wear jewlery but that they not dress and act in a provocitive nature with the intent of drawing people into the church. It is a form of idoletry. I dont know about the dancing and Christ drank wine along with everyone else. The sin is in the over-indulgence. Not eating pork or shellfish - do they also not shave or cut the locks? Interesting. Anyway - perhaps we could start another thread on this if people want to continue this discussion. I think it is interesting and would like to know more.
But what if, for example, the majority benefits from legalized, taxed prostitution. Does that mean prostitution is morally good?
That's a more complicated question than it sounds and I don't want to drift off topic but let me throw out a few thoughts. Prostitution in places like Southeast Asia where young girls are forced into this occupation and sometimes literally sold is immoral in every sense of the word and no economic gain can make it right. On the other hand it's clear that people are going to engage in this activity like they have all through history. In places like Amsterdam prostitution is legal and the women are protected and they can choose this lifestyle is they want to. In America it's very common for prostitutes to be victims of crime (remember the Green River Killer?) and their lives are miserable and dangerous. Which is better, a life on the street with the threat of violence hanging over your head or a government regulated system that protects women and provides health checkups? I have mixed feelings on this subject but it's not as easy as your question makes it out to be.
That's a more complicated question than it sounds and I don't want to drift off topic but let me throw out a few thoughts. Prostitution in places like Southeast Asia where young girls are forced into this occupation and sometimes literally sold is immoral in every sense of the word and no economic gain can make it right. On the other hand it's clear that people are going to engage in this activity like they have all through history. In places like Amsterdam prostitution is legal and the women are protected and they can choose this lifestyle is they want to. In America it's very common for prostitutes to be victims of crime (remember the Green River Killer?) and their lives are miserable and dangerous. Which is better, a life on the street with the threat of violence hanging over your head or a government regulated system that protects women and provides health checkups? I have mixed feelings on this subject but it's not as easy as your question makes it out to be.
Actually, it's very easy. God's laws vs. man's laws.
I usually treat others the way I would like to be treated, seems to work out well for all.
And that's based on the Bible! For instance, Matthew 7:12, Jesus said: "Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."
The Golden Rule certainly is a Biblical principle and I understand that other religions have a similar principle.
The Bible also has specifics and Jesus told us to #1 Love God, and #2 Love our neighbor as ourselves. If, and that's a big IF, we do those two things, we'll subsequently not commit other sins against them.
I believe that the Holy Spirit living in believers directs us as to God's will if it's something that we're just not sure about. I tend to believe "if in doubt, don't do it." Yes, we do make mistakes, we commit sins, we're far from perfect. But God is going to let us know when we've messed up and need to confess and repent. It's a daily walk.
Actually, it's very easy. God's laws vs. man's laws.
If only things were that simple. Since I don't believe that God even exists I obviously don't recognize any laws that are attributed to him. I see life as being very complex and the interactions of human beings are not so easily categorized. It would truly be much easier if everything was black and white but that's not the case. I think that many human beings want a nice simple answer to very complicated questions and the simplicity of religion allows them to pretend that life isn't so complicated afterall and we just need a little divine guidance to put us on the right path. I don't believe that and I think that we'll be capable of accepting reality at some point and we'll be able to grasp the fact that the real world is extremely complex and doesn't fit neatly into any human philosophy.
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) I usually treat others the way I would like to be treated, seems to work out well for all.
