Do Bibilical stories agree with Archeology? (teaching, history)
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The El Toro figurines were tested in three labs, when believers in Evolution refused to consider them at all. It was not science that rushed to have them tested. It was believers in the Bible.
The El Toro figurines were "tested" by YECers, and dismissed by legitimate scientists that have examined them.
The El Toro figurines were "tested" by YECers, and dismissed by legitimate scientists that have examined them.
It's easy to make such claims. Can you give us a link and the dates this testing took place? Because I can tell you, the only scientist that has considered them, and tested them believe them to be ancient. I would be really interested in your link, can you provide one?
You are officially banished to the dustbin of silly people along with YSM.
Your narrow-minded dogmatic view of the world constrained within the context of the self-determined ignorance of true science while stubbornly clinging to the literal interpretation of a book of fairy tales has absolutely taken its toll on my patience.
You ignore true scientific analysis (and links have been provided to you by more posters than just me) so that you may cleave fanatically to make-believe and nonsense just as long as it capitulates to your single-minded vision of the world.
You are henceforth banished back into Plato's Cave where you may gaze upon your shadow to your little heart's content. There is apparently nothing up here in the real world for you.
Buh-bye!
Kele, I'm sorry you feel that way. Yet historical evidence confirms the Biblical account. And I am the one that demands a scientific review, not the other way around. I believe real science and historical discovery supports the Bible. Fairy Tales requires one to ignore the evidence, and that is what many in science would have us do when it comes to much of the evidence that is out there. I don't ignore any scientific analysis. Yet in the case of the El Toro figurines no such analysis was ever done. And that is why none of you can provide me with dates, labs, or the names of scientist who actually tested the evidence. Personal opinion is not a scientific review. Can you tell me when such a review occured in the real world? Yes, many posters have addressed me. Yet, (NOT ONE OF YOU) can give me the name of a lab, a date, or the name of a scientist who did a true scientific review of the evidence. Why is that?
The El Toro figurines were tested in three labs, when believers in Evolution refused to consider them at all. It was not science that rushed to have them tested. It was believers in the Bible.
And yet, according to you they have been ignored while being tested three times. And these results have been roundly ignored be cause, let me get this straight, they represent the truth (especially with no supporting evidence).
You can't, even in your religious fog, have it both ways. Either they were tested and the results discarded, or they were not tested. Even you should be able to comprehend this. Except of course it shows your gullibility and hypocrisy.
The El Toro figurines were "tested" by YECers, and dismissed by legitimate scientists that have examined them.
Campbell neglects to mention that these were carbon14 tests which cannot be used to test ceramics or clay artifacts...He has also posted many times that carbon dating cannot be trusted....
Thermoluminescent dating would establish whether the objects are of recent manufacture or genuinely ancient, but it has not been carried out on any of them....I wonder why the YEC people haven't done proper tests? Are they afraid that the tests would show that they are just recent knick knacks made to fleece the gullible?
It's easy to make such claims. Can you give us a link and the dates this testing took place? Because I can tell you, the only scientist that has considered them, and tested them believe them to be ancient. I would be really interested in your link, can you provide one?
I did already, and enjoy your time playing with YSM on my ignore list.
I have no more interst in trying to educate those who refuse to be educated.
Campbell neglects to mention that these were carbon14 tests which cannot be used to test ceramics or clay artifacts...He has also posted many times that carbon dating cannot be trusted....
Thermoluminescent dating would establish whether the objects are of recent manufacture or genuinely ancient, but it has not been carried out on any of them....I wonder why the YEC people haven't done proper tests? Are they afraid that the tests would show that they are just recent knick knacks made to fleece the gullible?
I seem to recall seeing something about these being tested, and the lab finding that the clay still had a water content indicating they weren't more than twenty years old.
Not even going to bother looking for it tho.
A recognized and educated professional working for the Amerind Foundation trumps a gullible hardware salesman any time of the day.
Kele, I'm sorry you feel that way. Yet historical evidence confirms the Biblical account. And I am the one that demands a scientific review, not the other way around. I believe real science and historical discovery supports the Bible. Fairy Tales requires one to ignore the evidence, and that is what many in science would have us do when it comes to much of the evidence that is out there. I don't ignore any scientific analysis. Yet in the case of the El Toro figurines no such analysis was ever done. And that is why none of you can provide me with dates, labs, or the names of scientist who actually tested the evidence. Personal opinion is not a scientific review. Can you tell me when such a review occured in the real world? Yes, many posters have addressed me. Yet, (NOT ONE OF YOU) can give me the name of a lab, a date, or the name of a scientist who did a true scientific review of the evidence. Why is that?
Why can't you understand that it's been proven time and time again that the charlatans in possession of the Acambaro figures won't allow testing by independent laboratories or experts AT ALL?
Being an archaeologist myself, I find the circumstances under which these faux artifacts were found as well as the condition in which they were found to be simply Scheherazadian. I also know how much information can be gleaned from photographs alone--a method of research that is used with proveable results on a daily basis in the world of science.
Additionally, as you've been told already--14C dating CANNOT be used within any reliable context whatsoever to date artifacts that are not organic in origin. Since a great deal of your argument relies on faulty 14C evidence, one would think that you would know when to say when--but of course, you don't.
So keep on spouting your antilogous, chimerical chestnuts....they ARE amusing if nothing else.
I have posted the names of the labs, and the dates when they were tested (NUMEROUS TIMES). It was not the finder who said they were tested, it was others outside of the original finder who had them tested. And that testing confirmed them to be thousands of years old. And since they have been tested no less then (THREE) times, your belief that those in control will not allow them to be tested stands without merit, and your belief is simply false. And their are numerous other findings that confirm the Bible, and most of those finds are also ignored by science.
I have shown both the El Toro figurines, and the Ica burial stones. Yet there is a great deal of other evidence out there which is also ignored by science. Science dismisses this evidence by personal opinion only, not by science applied, or any scientific review. (PERSONAL OPINION ONLY.)
I have posted a fossil that clearly shows a dinosaur print with a man track, and again, that fossil was confirmed by a CT scan. And the one who controls that evidence has stated that he is willing to allow anyone from science to test this find as long as they donot destroy it.
Where are the findings? actual lab reports? Oh and that CT scan, yea read up on that one already debunked. And people have tried to get it for testing, is not allowed and they demand money, so I have read.
6035.5 years versus 77 million. Sure; it's just a "little" error...
Remember, folks, Tom also completely and constantly ignores not only my statements, but also those of many others who looked into the original test results.
As scientists often do with almost any discovery or find of interest. It's called peer-review, and Tom "conveniently" mis-labels it scientists ignoring the truth.
He will not ever concede the gross errors that the peer-reviewing scientists discovered in their review of these fake figurines:
1. First analysis: Conducted using completely improper Carbon14 dating on a ceramic structure. Tom would have us venerate and approve of an incorrect methodology just to sustain his point of view. Not too smart, Tom.
2. Second and Third analyses: Done with early thermo-luminescence, pre- laser illumination (hadn't yet been invented. Oops!).
3. Poor Field Handling of all Samples: altogether improper; artifacts subjected to solar heating, moisture, human contamination, packaging in bulk with other samples, etc.
In other words, completely invalidating the techniques.
4. Request from me (backed up by my offer to have my university, Simon Fraser University, in British Columbia, Canada) conduct up-to-the-minute laser thermo-luminesence, as well as X-Ray fluorescence (the later to accurately determine exact composition of the figurines and then compare them to known modern clay deposits used by current figurine makers in the area.)
This comprises Tom's "proof" of science's ignoring the figurines. Not too convincing, is it? Actually, it's rather damning, right, Tom?
In fact, he dutifully, time and agian, completely ignores these facts, and then re-hashes his tired and sorry tale of science's failings, instead of his own and those of the nut-ball fakers who tried to carry this hoax off.
Of course, they have been caught red-handed, and now won't allow anyone to do a thorough and unbiased set of tests. To do so would crumble their life's belief system. Thud!
Finally, let's not forget the rational absurdity of the idea that huge carnivorous and predatory dinosaurs roamed this earth less than 2000 years ago, happily co-mingling with men, and that the bible doesn't mention them in any place except Job's rather ambiguous and very short notes that also include mythical fire-breathing dragons, etc. And of course Job was not, in those passages, trying to accurately describe an actual leviathan; rather, he was talking with God about "what-ifs"
It's all physiologically impossible, but who cares when we're talking myths, eh Tom? (do you even know what "physiological" means, Tom?) Nor does the bible explain where they all went....
Finally, there's NOT ONE IOTA of rational evidence to support any of it. No fossil co-finds, no spears imbedded in any dino fossils, no dead but saddled-up dinos buried in the mud, as we find with wooly mammoths in the Alaskan and Siberian sub-arctic.
Christians don't care, frankly. It's primarily that, absent these fakey "proofs" and imbecillic story-lines they flaunt, their Christian fable falls apart. That's the only reason they battle these facts so vigorously.
Finally, given Tom's happy but odd acceptance of 1960's-era improperly used Carbon14 dating of his beloved figurines, there's his later "convenient" reluctance to accept modern (2008) and correctly-used C14 dating of fossils shown by those now-improved methods to be vastly older than the YEC 6036.5 years.
C14 dating from the late '60s (when his figurines were supposedly done, but in complete error) has become vastly more accurate today, as with all the dating techniques he "selectively" and "conveniently" either vigorously believes or vehemently disbelieves. To the point of the latest methods accurately finding the recent Montana dino finds he gloated over to be "only" 77 million years old.
Well! Talk about selective biases, huh, folks??
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6035.5 years versus 77 million. Sure; it's just a "little" error...
