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You are blaming God for what people did to Elisabeth Fritz. But hey, whatever floats your boat.
But you are saying that Elisabeth deserved it, because your god allowed it to happen and your god is always right. You also blame humans for uncontrollable natural disasters that kill innocent children, when you know humans can't control the weather.
Your religion has you making excuses for an authority figure sitting with indifference watching innocent people horribly abused, raped, tortured, starved, diseased, etc. I've heard of authority figures like that, they are totalitarian despots like hitler, kim jong il, saddam, ...
But you are saying that Elisabeth deserved it, because your god allowed it to happen and your god is always right. You also blame humans for uncontrollable natural disasters that kill innocent children, when you know humans can't control the weather.
Your religion has you making excuses for an authority figure sitting with indifference watching innocent people horribly abused, raped, tortured, starved, diseased, etc. I've heard of authority figures like that, they are totalitarian despots like hitler, kim jong il, saddam, ...
As logic dictates, you got to know this is coming.
Can God change your mind right here right now? Does God have that power over you? Can He do it?
Now that you have taken it home to yourself, look out into the world, what do you see?
There was a plan A perhaps and a plan B perhaps. A plan for which ever way we developed. The choice for life and how we manage is up to us. However the choice for the afterlife, is up to God.
If a person chooses to throw out the notion of an afterlife, then that person has nothing to loose in their life.
God told me there were still good people in this world. His will be sending of Christ back for us will be in a time that can not be said.
So as I look into the world to try and see what God sees in people, well there must still be good in it as Christ has yet to come. I work hard at throwing out the bitterness from my heart. There are times though that bitterness will rear it's ugly head at me as I get so upset at the hurt and the pain.
People still have time to change their hearts. It could happen. And to know if that is right is to look within ourselves. It begins with one person. Will that person be you today?
You're still missing the point. God created us and this planet with the full knowledge that we would murder, rape, steal, pillage, rob, beat, torture and everything else possible to one another. God is, was and always will be fully aware of the pain that people cause each other. While the christian world may be able to afford luxuries like food and shelter, we are that much more able to just forget about how the rest of the world really lives. But god can't afford the luxury of not knowing what's going on. God has no reason to be surprised about anything.
God sits back and watches his 86% christian nation kill more than a million innocent people in it's wars; god watches thousands of children starve to death every hour. When the most powerful being that ever was and will be sits back and watches these things all in the name of some "greater plan" then it's a plan that I want nothing to do with. By default of definition God cannot change a mind or a will, but if he is willing to flood the planet and destroy entire cities that don't worship him then maybe it couldn't hurt this powerhouse of good will to throw a few lightning bolts around, drop a few piano's or magically make some food appear for all of "his children" that starve to death.
When god watches these things happen it shouldn't be any worse than me pulling up a lawnchair, stuffing my face with hot dogs and watching people die off.
God can send christ again, maybe he'll do the job right this time. Christians have had 2000 years, TWO- thousand years and we're still the same batch of a-holes we've always been. I think after two thousand years of effort, it's time to give someone else a try...
Oddly the one atheist argument that really got me had nothing to do with Hell (as a person could reject Hell yet still believe in God) or evil, but ran more like this.
"Atheist: Let's say I agree all this stuff sounds nice and reasonable. Well isn't that rather convenient?
Theist: What do you mean?
Atheist: You want things to be nice and reasonable so you find something to do that. You also state you need something greater than yourself and lo God gives you that. But what says life has to be reasonable? What says the Universe have any meaning at all? Why would this grand God bigger than the Universe care about you at all? Do you care about the amoebas floating down in the river? Honestly?"
Even now writing that takes me aback and makes me worry I'm encouraging atheism. At times I'm close to just saying "yeah maybe it is convenient, but what says that's not possible? And I'd rather choose what I deem the better option if I can."
However the "allow evil" just never made an impact on me. Every father does allow evil to some degree and to really restrain our capability for evil I think would make us a bit more robotic. I think "allow evil" argument is close to saying "I believe there is a God and I'm very angry at him/her."
Oh so you believe your god allowed this to happen when she didn't deserve it? Where's the justice? Would you do the same if you had the power to stop it?
However the "allow evil" just never made an impact on me. Every father does allow evil to some degree and to really restrain our capability for evil I think would make us a bit more robotic. I think "allow evil" argument is close to saying "I believe there is a God and I'm very angry at him/her."
No it's more like "there's no way that, if a god does exist, it is just and moral as you say."
What kind of father that you speak of would allow his innocent child to be raped and tortured without doing one thing to stop it?
Hey, if you are OK believing in a totalitarian despot who can do what he pleases to you because he owns you, and he has no obligation to use his power to stop you from getting raped and tortured, then what can I say? I just can't understand how people can look at what happens in this world and believe there's a perfectly moral being that has the power to stop much of the evil in the world, but just won't do it. It's not moral to stand by watching innocent children get raped without doing something about it, no matter how many excuses you make for your god.
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal," said Nixon, and we all love and respect him don't we?
You're still missing the point. God created us and this planet with the full knowledge that we would murder, rape, steal, pillage, rob, beat, torture and everything else possible to one another. God is, was and always will be fully aware of the pain that people cause each other. While the christian world may be able to afford luxuries like food and shelter, we are that much more able to just forget about how the rest of the world really lives. But god can't afford the luxury of not knowing what's going on. God has no reason to be surprised about anything.
God sits back and watches his 86% christian nation kill more than a million innocent people in it's wars; god watches thousands of children starve to death every hour. When the most powerful being that ever was and will be sits back and watches these things all in the name of some "greater plan" then it's a plan that I want nothing to do with. By default of definition God cannot change a mind or a will, but if he is willing to flood the planet and destroy entire cities that don't worship him then maybe it couldn't hurt this powerhouse of good will to throw a few lightning bolts around, drop a few piano's or magically make some food appear for all of "his children" that starve to death.
When god watches these things happen it shouldn't be any worse than me pulling up a lawnchair, stuffing my face with hot dogs and watching people die off.
God can send christ again, maybe he'll do the job right this time. Christians have had 2000 years, TWO- thousand years and we're still the same batch of a-holes we've always been. I think after two thousand years of effort, it's time to give someone else a try...
How do you know the all knowing God knew what we would do? Is there something written in the Biblical scriptures I'm unware of? Some obscure passage some where were it say's and I God the Father do these things both willfully and unjustly in the name of me????? I will cast these people into inequity and make them do the most horrid of horrible things to each other.
See, no, I do not miss your point. Your point is your point that I do not now nor ever will in the future look at God and go, he made me do this or he made us do this. He made the world a horrible place? You know I've always heard it said, 'the devil made me do it', but this is God made us do it?
Take responsibility for pete's sake and quit blaming it off on some one else. The devil, God or Little Lord Fauntleroy....
When God made humans he gave to us one thing, Free Choice. Meaning we are not robots or puppets on a string. He gave to himself Free Will.
It is our choice to be who and what want to be. It is His Will to handle it however he sees fit to handle it.
If you don't like it don't vote. There's my motto.
The thing you're not LIYF is most Christians have heard this "why would a good God allow evil" thing a million times before. We either have an explanation that satisfies us or we just roll-our-eyes and tune out.
It just doesn't really say anything. I mean if there's no God than how does that make the Fritzl thing any better? If there is a God at least men like this will be punished even if the law never punishes them. At least people killed by freaks like this will receive solace in the afterlife. Without a God we have man doing evil and man allowing evil for years on end. So in that case there's no God and Mankind is the cold/cruel one. And in that case where do you find any hope at all? Kitty cats?
Q: I don't agree with people like you who say God loves us, because I don't see any evidence for it. Just look at all the wars in the world, or all the other terrible things that happen. They sure don't point to a loving God. — K.Y.
A: Dear K.Y.,
I agree with part of what you say: Our world's wars and other horrors don't necessarily point us to God's love....
But this isn't the whole picture! How do I know God loves us? I know it because Jesus Christ demonstrated God's love by coming down from heaven to defeat sin. By His death and resurrection, Christ defeated Satan and some day the final battle will be won and sin will be destroyed forever.
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Billy Graham
