Evolution question of the day (Biblically, bible, quote, God)
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No rephrase necessary. And another Doctoral degree!
Granted: You are now to be known as Dr. MakeMe!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PanTerra
I graduated from a Christian university.
So you can tell all of us: Did they entertain any serious scientific reflection on Evoluton (capital "E"), or did they find a way to dismiss it. With minor voice inflections? Direct challenges? did they combine biosciences with creationism in a so-called scientific curriculum? In the end, were you left with a feeling that Evolution was or was not accepted there?
At the universities I attended (University of British Columbia, Simon Fraser University (near Vancouver, B.C., Canada, & University of Kentucky), there was mention of competing ideas about Evolution, but we were (correctly) pointed to the Philosophy Department for those discussions because Creationism is, by definition, not a scientific pursuit nor topic, and thus cannot or should not be discussed in detail within a science curriculum.
I also found it interesting, in the so-called "hard" or applied sciences that I also studied, where people's lives depended on decisions (as in nuclear physics or civil or automotive or mining engineering) religion rarely raises so much as a peep. Did god get involved in the final design of this bridge's stress calcualtions? No room for arguing philosophies there; the prior materials science studies determined the exact tress limits of some alloy, and what size was needed to support a 2-mile long suspension bridge, and that was that.
When we apply the same useful fact-finding techniques to, say, geological dating, or varve analysis, suddenly it's all biased and the investigators willfully ignorant of obvious pro-Creationist findings. What do we then conclude about those who would refute those scientific findings, especially when they have now been so thoroughly reproduced, cross-checked and validated?
Creation rightfully belongs in a class on The History of Religions, Comparative Religious Philosophies or perhaps a Cultural History class. Certainly not within a system that requires vigorous adherance to a logic-based, falsifiable, peer-review-based, open-to-constant-improvement or modification type of structured methodology.
You agree, Pan Terra? Remember: I wasn't denegrating your university education, but rather simply asking...
"Especially, what level of objectivity about Creation can we expect from a person who graduated from a Christian University?"
I'll still stand by that honest question(it wasn't an arrogant statement), and look forward to your thoughts and answer.
You agree, Pan Terra? Remember: I wasn't denegrating your university education, but rather simply asking...
"Especially, what level of objectivity about Creation can we expect from a person who graduated from a Christian University?"
I'll still stand by that honest question(it wasn't an arrogant statement), and look forward to your thoughts and answer.
Well, what is meant by "Christian University"? We need to distinguish a "Bible college" from real institutions of higher learning with Christian backgrounds such as places like U. of Notre Dame or even Baylor U.
So you can tell all of us: Did they entertain any serious scientific reflection on Evoluton (capital "E"), or did they find a way to dismiss it. With minor voice inflections? Direct challenges? did they combine biosciences with creationism in a so-called scientific curriculum? In the end, were you left with a feeling that Evolution was or was not accepted there?
At the universities I attended (University of British Columbia, Simon Fraser University (near Vancouver, B.C., Canada, & University of Kentucky), there was mention of competing ideas about Evolution, but we were (correctly) pointed to the Philosophy Department for those discussions because Creationism is, by definition, not a scientific pursuit nor topic, and thus cannot or should not be discussed in detail within a science curriculum.
I also found it interesting, in the so-called "hard" or applied sciences that I also studied, where people's lives depended on decisions (as in nuclear physics or civil or automotive or mining engineering) religion rarely raises so much as a peep. Did god get involved in the final design of this bridge's stress calcualtions? No room for arguing philosophies there; the prior materials science studies determined the exact tress limits of some alloy, and what size was needed to support a 2-mile long suspension bridge, and that was that.
When we apply the same useful fact-finding techniques to, say, geological dating, or varve analysis, suddenly it's all biased and the investigators willfully ignorant of obvious pro-Creationist findings. What do we then conclude about those who would refute those scientific findings, especially when they have now been so thoroughly reproduced, cross-checked and validated?
Creation rightfully belongs in a class on The History of Religions, Comparative Religious Philosophies or perhaps a Cultural History class. Certainly not within a system that requires vigorous adherance to a logic-based, falsifiable, peer-review-based, open-to-constant-improvement or modification type of structured methodology.
You agree, Pan Terra? Remember: I wasn't denegrating your university education, but rather simply asking...
"Especially, what level of objectivity about Creation can we expect from a person who graduated from a Christian University?"
I'll still stand by that honest question(it wasn't an arrogant statement), and look forward to your thoughts and answer.
You know, creationism never came up in any of the my science classes. Come to think of it, in my Old Testament survey class, it may have been just listed as one of the many different interpretations of the opening chapters in Genesis.
My degree, Geology, exposed me to all the major sciences at that university. Physics, Chemistry, Biology, etc. It was never an issue. My university only taught real science. Creation Science may have been referred to as a "Folk science" but we were way too busy to bother with it, you know, actually doing science. The only hint of an of objection that I came across was during one of our regularly scheduled Saturday field trips for the Freshman in either Physical or Historical Geology courses. One of these freshman protested about hiking down to a beautiful outcrop of the Georgetown Formation, a highly fossiliferous section of Cretaceous limestones and shales of Central-Texas. She didn't want to look at the fossils because she believed they were planted by Satan. She was probably just an education major trying to satisfy her science requirement. Otherwise she would not have lasted very long in our department, or any of the other sciences. Bless her heart. From my university, you could expect the highest level of objectivity and integrity from its graduates. The Geology Department of this Christian university was one of the most recruited by the major oil companies, i.e. Exxon, Mobil (Exxon-Mobil), Texaco, Pennsoil, Sun (later Oryx) Arco, (now part of BP), etc. It was actually one of the most recruited universities in Texas. Boy, did we get schmoozed, it was a fun time of year. My thesis, "Petroleum Potential of the Austin Chalk in Brazos, Grimes and Madison Counties, Texas" was actually funded by three oil companies. There are numerous "Christian" universities that only teach conventional sciences, yes, even in Texas. However, the Institute of Creation Research, recently moving to Dallas (where I live) does teach Creation Science out of a garden office, but that is a rarity, similar to Bob Jones University, although, their degrees are not recognized as legit. However, they are still trying to have it reversed.
Thank you, Dr. PanTerra. I also was funded up as a private consultant to big Oil up in the Canadian and Alaskan Arctic, (Esso, Dome Petroleum, PetroCan, Shell Oil, Gulf) and thoroughly enjoyed their free-spending ways back in the late '70s and early '80s. They were only interested in real, applicable science though, and I wonder what they would have done with a geologist (like your fellow student) who held to the idea that we were tampering with Satan's evil fossil remains (oil shales, etc.).
Thank you, Dr. PanTerra. I also was funded up as a private consultant to big Oil up in the Canadian and Alaskan Arctic, (Esso, Dome Petroleum, PetroCan, Shell Oil, Gulf) and thoroughly enjoyed their free-spending ways back in the late '70s and early '80s. They were only interested in real, applicable science though, and I wonder what they would have done with a geologist (like your fellow student) who held to the idea that we were tampering with Satan's evil fossil remains (oil shales, etc.).
I think it woulda been: "Pack up and git out!"
At one time, I was to interview with Nexen in their Gulf Coast exploratation department here in their Dallas office. They were looking for someone with extensive off-shore gulf coast experience. They asked me about my experience. I said I had plenty but it was on-shore, however, I did say that at one time it was off-shore.
Are you dense, or didn't you read my post? I said nothing about Greenland.
Precipitation in Antarctica interior is 2 inches per year. It's classified a desert.
Tell me how long it would take to reach a depth of 9,840 feet.
Well theres the problem sanspeur, you must believe that 2 inches per year is a constant, and never changes. This is an assumption, based on what?
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YEC question of the day...
From my university, you could expect the highest level of objectivity and integrity from its graduates. The Geology Department of this Christian university was one of the most recruited by the major oil companies, i.e. Exxon, Mobil (Exxon-Mobil), Texaco, Pennsoil, Sun (later Oryx) Arco, (now part of BP), etc. It was actually one of the most recruited universities in Texas. Boy, did we get schmoozed, it was a fun time of year. 
My thesis, "Petroleum Potential of the Austin Chalk in Brazos, Grimes and Madison Counties, Texas" was actually funded by three oil companies. There are numerous "Christian" universities that only teach conventional sciences, yes, even in Texas. However, the Institute of Creation Research, recently moving to Dallas (where I live) does teach Creation Science out of a garden office, but that is a rarity, similar to Bob Jones University, although, their degrees are not recognized as legit. However, they are still trying to have it reversed.
Speaking realistically....
