Why Doesn't God Just Get Rid Of The Devil? (mythology, Israel, Commandment)
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God's knowing does not affect that it is your choice. I watch my children.
The difference here is that Adam & Eve should not have been thrown out of the Garden after their very 1st mistake.
This would be the same as a parent who kicks a toddler out of his house because it disobeyed a command it probably did not even understand. Another thing is that you do not punish the children for a mistake their parents have made.
First, please correct my flawed theology and then kindly explain to me how your God is not an accomplice in this theology of yours?
Thanks
The first problem with your theology is that you think that satan is responsible for all of the pain and suffering that man has to endure. If you remember God created all things. When he completed creation he said "it is very good". So everything was perfect when God was done. That means that Lucifer was "very good" and man was "very good". There was no disease or cancer because these things are not very good. There was no death because death is not very good. It was when man chose to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that sin entered into the world. Man decided that God did not know what he was talking about. Man chose his way over God's way. Man allowed death and disease and suffering to enter the world. Who is satan? If Satan was so important he could have just eaten the fruit himself. No, man needed to eat of the fruit, because it was man who was told not to.
When I think of the concentration camps or war or rape. It is not the devil that is raping or killing, it is man. Humans making a choice to do evil. So your anger is misguided. The problems we face are caused by ourselves yet you want to transfer the responsibility to someone else. The nest time you are angry that the family has to suffer because of the small child that they loved died, be angry at man and the pain and suffering caused when man makes a wrong decision to follow his own ideas and disobey the commandments of God.
So I guess what I understand here is that God does not want to get rid f the devil - at least not yet. No one is admitting the devil is needed but it is implied. We know this because God "allows" Satan to do things and since Satan is bad, these things are only bad, God knows they are bad but he "allows" them to happen or reasons we might not understand.
So apparently God does not afflict people with illness, does not strike down people with death (like a 1 year old child), tempts them or just screws up their entire day or life. He "allows" Satan to do those things yet is above all blame because even though he "allows" these things to happen he somehow remains innocent of any wrongdoing.
So why do I hear people talking about "binding" Satan or resisting him when he is just doing what he is commissioned to do?
Last edited by yydanay515; 08-27-2008 at 06:28 AM..
The first problem with your theology is that you think that satan is responsible for all of the pain and suffering that man has to endure. If you remember God created all things. When he completed creation he said "it is very good". So everything was perfect when God was done. That means that Lucifer was "very good" and man was "very good". There was no disease or cancer because these things are not very good. There was no death because death is not very good. It was when man chose to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that sin entered into the world. Man decided that God did not know what he was talking about. Man chose his way over God's way. Man allowed death and disease and suffering to enter the world. Who is satan? If Satan was so important he could have just eaten the fruit himself. No, man needed to eat of the fruit, because it was man who was told not to.
When I think of the concentration camps or war or rape. It is not the devil that is raping or killing, it is man. Humans making a choice to do evil. So your anger is misguided. The problems we face are caused by ourselves yet you want to transfer the responsibility to someone else. The nest time you are angry that the family has to suffer because of the small child that they loved died, be angry at man and the pain and suffering caused when man makes a wrong decision to follow his own ideas and disobey the commandments of God.
I can accept this. No Satan in the equation. Just man being held responsible for his own mess. I'm not so sure other Christians will feel good about not having someone to blame.
Satan roams about misleading the entire inhabited earth (Rev 12:9)...just like he did Adam and Eve. He was an angel/ spirit creature who had free will and began to question God's authority. SO this lesson is one for the angels in heaven as well as the humans on earth.
Although Satan is a force out there that is misleading and tempting us, we have free will and ultimately make the decision to do bad (Galations 6:7). You can't blame Satan for your own behavior, he's not a scapegoat nor should he be used as one.
God WILL destroy Satan.
Serious issues were raised by Satan...he led Eve to believe that God was witholding something from them that would contribute to their happiness. He questioned God's right to soveriegnty. By disobeying God, Adam and Eve also questioned God's authority to rule humans.
If we didn't have ample time to TRY to work this out...then this argument that Satan raised, this question of soveriegnty would never be resolved. The angels and the offspring of Adam and Eve (down to our day) would never see what happens when humans try to rule ourselves. Also, there is a scripture that talks about how God is patient and giving humans time to turn to him.
Quote:
The difference here is that Adam & Eve should not have been thrown out of the Garden after their very 1st mistake.
This would be the same as a parent who kicks a toddler out of his house because it disobeyed a command it probably did not even understand.
Another thing is that you do not punish the children for a mistake their parents have made.
Nikk, They were not imperfect toddlers who disobeyed an imperfect parent. This was the start of the perfect human race. They were intelligent adults, they were perfect BUT had free will. They willingly disobeyed God, proving to Satan that humans will disobey God. God's punishment had to be swift and exact. He told them BEFOREHAND the punishment for disobedience at Gen 2:16,17 and Eve confirmed that she knew this at Gen 3:3-5. Remember the angels were watching. What message would be sent if he didn't follow through with his word? Just like any parent who says, "If you do *blank*, then *blank* will happen", God had to follow through. I'm going to trust that he knew the punishment had to be sooooo severe.
HOWEVER, Jesus was the corresponding sacrifice that proved Satan wrong. He resisted Satan through death, proving that humans with free will CAN and will WILLFULLY submit to God's authority. Eventually, God's original purpose will be fulfilled. That God didn't just destroy humans or take away free will shows me that he is patient and loving. He knows that in the end there will be many faithful people who will prove Satan wrong.
It's a long and hard lesson to learn, but one that will never come in to question again.
Originally Posted by Nikk The difference here is that Adam & Eve should not have been thrown out of the Garden after their very 1st mistake.
This would be the same as a parent who kicks a toddler out of his house because it disobeyed a command it probably did not even understand. Another thing is that you do not punish the children for a mistake their parents have made.
No, it is more like a parent saying to their fully grow, fully mature adult children, don't put your hand it the light socket, where the adult child knows full well of the consequences. After they disobey the parrent, the parrent mends their wounds and even provides for future children of theirs who may eventually put their fingers in the light socket.
So I guess what I understand here is that God does not want to get rid f the devil - at least not yet. No one is admitting the devil is needed but it is implied. We know this because God "allows" Satan to do things and since Satan is bad, these things are only bad, God knows they are bad but he "allows" them to happen or reasons we might not understand.
So apparently God does not afflict people with illness, does not strike down people with death (like a 1 year old child), tempts them or just screws up their entire day or life. He "allows" Satan to do those things yet is above all blame because even though he "allows" these things to happen he somehow remains innocent of any wrongdoing.
So why do I hear people talking about "binding" Satan or resisting him when he is just doing what he is commissioned to do?
You are still off. Satan is not commisioned. When we bind satan in the name of Jesus, we are binding the demonic activity in that perticular circumstance. We then need to address the people involved. If they want Satan to continue ruling their lives, there is no good effect of a Christian casting that devil out. For it is written that he will go and find seven demons worse than himself and return to the person and the final state of that person will be worse than before the devil was first cast out (paraphrased). So, we each have the authority to allow Satan as much activity in our lives as we want. The total submission of a person to the demonic is called demon possesion.
The Christian is called to resist the devil. It is written, "Submit to God, resist the devil and he will flee from you." Our daily walk requires us to be submitted to God. Our resistance is one of standing in the authority given to us as Sons of God.
The problems of this world all stems from the fall of man. This is the sin that was committed by Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. This sin caused all of creation to experience death. This is where the blood in tooth and claw that we see in the animal kingdom arose. Before the fall every animal ate vegetation. There were no carnivores. The world was good and there was no death. No man or animal died nor could die. So, the world that we look at is not the world that was created it is in a "fallen" state.
But that is not where we are left, because there is hope. All things will be restored through Jesus Christ.
Satan roams about misleading the entire inhabited earth (Rev 12:9)...just like he did Adam and Eve. He was an angel/ spirit creature who had free will and began to question God's authority. SO this lesson is one for the angels in heaven as well as the humans on earth.
Although Satan is a force out there that is misleading and tempting us, we have free will and ultimately make the decision to do bad (Galations 6:7). You can't blame Satan for your own behavior, he's not a scapegoat nor should he be used as one.
God WILL destroy Satan.
Serious issues were raised by Satan...he led Eve to believe that God was witholding something from them that would contribute to their happiness. He questioned God's right to soveriegnty. By disobeying God, Adam and Eve also questioned God's authority to rule humans.
If we didn't have ample time to TRY to work this out...then this argument that Satan raised, this question of soveriegnty would never be resolved. The angels and the offspring of Adam and Eve (down to our day) would never see what happens when humans try to rule ourselves. Also, there is a scripture that talks about how God is patient and giving humans time to turn to him.
Nikk, They were not imperfect toddlers who disobeyed an imperfect parent. This was the start of the perfect human race. They were intelligent adults, they were perfect BUT had free will. They willingly disobeyed God, proving to Satan that humans will disobey God. God's punishment had to be swift and exact. He told them BEFOREHAND the punishment for disobedience at Gen 2:16,17 and Eve confirmed that she knew this at Gen 3:3-5. Remember the angels were watching. What message would be sent if he didn't follow through with his word? Just like any parent who says, "If you do *blank*, then *blank* will happen", God had to follow through. I'm going to trust that he knew the punishment had to be sooooo severe.
HOWEVER, Jesus was the corresponding sacrifice that proved Satan wrong. He resisted Satan through death, proving that humans with free will CAN and will WILLFULLY submit to God's authority. Eventually, God's original purpose will be fulfilled. That God didn't just destroy humans or take away free will shows me that he is patient and loving. He knows that in the end there will be many faithful people who will prove Satan wrong.
It's a long and hard lesson to learn, but one that will never come in to question again.
I agree with you, it is TrickyD you are quoting not me, Nikk.
God keeps the Devil around so the coffers of the church stay filled.
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The difference here is that Adam & Eve should not have been thrown out of the Garden after their very 1st mistake.
Another thing is that you do not punish the children for a mistake their parents have made.
