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Isn't this what Satan told Eve? Isn't that the original lie...that we won't die, we'll become like God?
God said you will die...not: your earth body will die but your spirit will go on.
Yet, even though Christ lives within you, your body will die
because of sin; but your spirit will live, for Christ has pardoned it.
And if the Spirit of God, who raised up Jesus from the dead, lives
in you, he will make your dying bodies live again after you die, by
means of this same Holy Spirit living within you.
Romans 8:10-11
If you are a believer you will get a new glorified body.
If you are an unbeliever you will not get a new body after your
earth body dies.
But both believers and unbelievers have a soul and spirit that
lives forever. One, however, will have a far better eternal
outcome than the other.
Oh, and until Jesus died and was resurrected, Old Testament saints
did not have access to heaven ...including Adam and Eve. I'm not
sure if they have their glorified bodies yet. I would assume they
would have to wait on Judgement (and Rewards) Day just like the
rest of us.
If I didn't explain it very well....please feel free to let me
know.
We gain spiritual strength through prayer, study of God's word and wielding that sword of the spirit that He has given us to wield during those times when we do face a struggle or some heartbreak of sorts.
Be that as it may, I gain my spiritual strength by finding the answers on my own.
I'm autodidact in most things (especially art & religion).
Most of the answers I've found contradict the Bible, but not Jesus.
Originally Posted by mari4him Be that as it may, I gain my spiritual strength by finding the answers on my own.
I'm autodidact in most things (especially art & religion).
Most of the answers I've found contradict the Bible, but not Jesus.
I respect your opinion and think it is great that you seek out answers on your own. In that sense we are very much alike. I don't sit there and simply listen to a preacher on Sunday morning and take him word for word. I seek out the scriptures for any confirmation and understanding of God's word or direction that I may be needing and do so after prayer and asking God to reveal things to me.
Too often some people want things, knowledge, to be spoon fed to them rather than digging their own heels in and studying for themselves. Yet 2 Timothy 2:15 tells us "study to show yourself approved unto God, a workmanship that needs not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". This studying does not come easy. It is not done in dabs of 5 minute study or in simply reading through a chapter a day. It is a process that continues through our lifetime. It involves not just studying a certain passage, but the subject of that passage, the times, the customs, what the Bible says about it, throughout the Bible, in order to gain full understanding of it.
I, personally, disagree that the bible contradicts Jesus. What we know of Jesus comes directly from the bible. There are those that claim such contradictions based on Old Testament vs. New Testament. Take for example in OT where it says "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" this would speak of revenge in a way. However, NT Jesus says "if a man strikes you on the cheek, turn the other cheek" this therefore shows Jesus is not speaking of seeking revenge.
However, this does not mean that the bible is a contradiction to Jesus. The OT was built on the law, laws created by man. In the NT, Jesus came so that all was fulfilled. The OT told of His coming. The NT reveals Him. We live in the NT and according to what Jesus taught. We study the OT to know God and understand His ways, His ability, His plans, etc. To understand the struggles and the victories faced and experienced by God's children. People like Abraham, Job, David, Esther, Ruth, etc. OT shows us what can be accomplished when trust is in God. NT shows us what we have to inherit when we accept Jesus and what He did for us.
OT has us bound to law. Law which even the creators of such law were unable to uphold completely. Or, they did on the outside but the inner man, the heart, failed to align with God's. NT sets us free from the law, knowing Jesus paid the price for us. OT we live under law. NT we live under God's grace and mercy.
I don't see the bible contradicting Jesus. John 1:1 says "in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God". John 1:14 then tells us "and the word was made flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld his glory".
Yet, even though Christ lives within you, your body will die
because of sin; but your spirit will live, for Christ has pardoned it.
And if the Spirit of God, who raised up Jesus from the dead, lives
in you, he will make your dying bodies live again after you die, by
means of this same Holy Spirit living within you.
Romans 8:10-11
If you are a believer you will get a new glorified body.
If you are an unbeliever you will not get a new body after your
earth body dies.
But both believers and unbelievers have a soul and spirit that
lives forever. One, however, will have a far better eternal
outcome than the other.
Oh, and until Jesus died and was resurrected, Old Testament saints
did not have access to heaven ...including Adam and Eve. I'm not
sure if they have their glorified bodies yet. I would assume they
would have to wait on Judgement (and Rewards) Day just like the
rest of us.
If I didn't explain it very well....please feel free to let me
know.
I understand what you are saying about Jesus and souls...no need to clarify. I believe differently, but to debate that would take this thread off topic.
However, how do believe that God will get rid of the devil like it says in the bible?
I respect your opinion and think it is great that you seek out answers on your own. In that sense we are very much alike. I don't sit there and simply listen to a preacher on Sunday morning and take him word for word. I seek out the scriptures for any confirmation and understanding of God's word or direction that I may be needing and do so after prayer and asking God to reveal things to me.
Too often some people want things, knowledge, to be spoon fed to them rather than digging their own heels in and studying for themselves. Yet 2 Timothy 2:15 tells us "study to show yourself approved unto God, a workmanship that needs not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". This studying does not come easy. It is not done in dabs of 5 minute study or in simply reading through a chapter a day. It is a process that continues through our lifetime. It involves not just studying a certain passage, but the subject of that passage, the times, the customs, what the Bible says about it, throughout the Bible, in order to gain full understanding of it.
I, personally, disagree that the bible contradicts Jesus. What we know of Jesus comes directly from the bible. There are those that claim such contradictions based on Old Testament vs. New Testament. Take for example in OT where it says "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" this would speak of revenge in a way. However, NT Jesus says "if a man strikes you on the cheek, turn the other cheek" this therefore shows Jesus is not speaking of seeking revenge.
However, this does not mean that the bible is a contradiction to Jesus. The OT was built on the law, laws created by man. In the NT, Jesus came so that all was fulfilled. The OT told of His coming. The NT reveals Him. We live in the NT and according to what Jesus taught. We study the OT to know God and understand His ways, His ability, His plans, etc. To understand the struggles and the victories faced and experienced by God's children. People like Abraham, Job, David, Esther, Ruth, etc. OT shows us what can be accomplished when trust is in God. NT shows us what we have to inherit when we accept Jesus and what He did for us.
OT has us bound to law. Law which even the creators of such law were unable to uphold completely. Or, they did on the outside but the inner man, the heart, failed to align with God's. NT sets us free from the law, knowing Jesus paid the price for us. OT we live under law. NT we live under God's grace and mercy.
I don't see the bible contradicting Jesus. John 1:1 says "in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God". John 1:14 then tells us "and the word was made flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld his glory".
I guess you need to do your own advise and study the OT. Start with Deut 4and then get back to me. Oh, when your done with that jump over to Numbers 23 and Psalms 146.
If you had actually read the Bible you would know that God has numbered satan's days.
in revelation it speaks of God throwing all sinfull people (without Jesus's salvation) and all the fallen angels (demons and lucifer) into the lake of fire for eternity .
I guess you need to do your own advise and study the OT. Start with Deut 4and then get back to me. Oh, when your done with that jump over to Numbers 23 and Psalms 146.
I have previously read those chapters you point out, and have yet again read them now. Deut. 24 speaks of certain laws concerning divorce and remarriage, exemptions for a newly married man, and matters concerning lending and pledging. Numbers 23 is about the seven altars that were built and how Ba'lak expected to curse his enemies, however, they were blessed instead as Ba'laam heeded to the what God had spoken to him. Lastly, Psalms 146 is a praise to the Lord that is our help and speaks about us not putting our trust in princes' or man but to trust in God and who looks after those who follow Him. Who provides, gives freedom, keeps His word, lifts up those who are down, and relieves those who are suffering or alone. It refers to the mercy of God upon those who believe in Him and how he deals with the wicked.
While I truly enjoy reading God's word, I fail to understand what your point was in directing me to read these scriptures. As for laws, I never stated that they are not needed. Laws were established to maintain order and help map out obedience to God. Some were created merely due to man's disobedience and/or sinful nature, thus needing established rules of behavior. God in turn did bless those who were obedient to Him and many are the passages both in OT and NT which speak of and show the many blessings God pours out upon His children.
Furthermore, I never claimed that there were no showings of God's mercy within the OT. Anyone who has read the OT or portions of it, would know that God did in fact pour out blessings upon His children and mercy was illustrated within many passages of scripture, both OT and NT.
My point in my post was simply that there are people out there that try to discredit the bible or Jesus by claiming discrepencies or contradictions. Often times, they compare OT to NT. However, not only were the times of the OT and NT already somewhat different, but, the OT was before Jesus coming and the NT was after His coming. My reference to the laws in OT was simply that God Himself knew we could not, in our sinful nature, fulfill all the laws that were placed upon man.
In Romans 7, Paul speaks of how we are freed from the law. Paul explains that the law itself is not sin and we would not know sin for it not the law. Paul explained the law was spiritual, however we are carnal and the law alone could not save us from our sin.
In Matt. 5:17 Jesus states, "Do not think that I cam to destroy the law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill". Throughout the book of Matthew we see Jesus giving a whole set of commandments (laws if you will), illustrations, and directions on how we should live. These spoke more towards the inner heart of man, than the outward actions. They were about forgiveness, cleanliness, showing mercy, compassion, loving our enemies, going the extra mile for someone, etc.
In Romans 8:1-4 Paul states "There is therefore no no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Thus my statement that we, as Christians, study the OT, but live in the NT. Because we don't walk and live according to the bondage of the law, but according to the freedom we receive in Christ Jesus. Freedom to walk in the Spirit, and not in our flesh.
So…there I was putting away dishes in the kitchen when I heard a trailer of [URL="https://www.facebook.com/note_redirect.php?note_id=29763630853&h=d53658e954 0011a6007a8f31129dc1dd&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgawker.com %2F5014287%2Fbill-mahers-religulous"]Bill Maher's new movie Religulous[/URL]. In his effort to make religion seem ridiculous, hence the title Religulous, I heard him ask one of his victims, “Why doesn’t God just destroy the devil and do away with evil now?” The victim could only answer, “He will.” Bill Maher then asked a question that shook my own confidence. He simply asked, “When?” I immediately had a Matthew 11:3 moment. In this passage John the Baptist is in prison awaiting certain death when he starts to doubt. He sends a message to Jesus asking if He is really the Messiah they have been waiting on.
We all have moments of doubt. My panic began as I stopped and thought about my life. I had taken early retirement, sold my house, moved my family, and committed myself to four years of tough schooling and expensive tuition to go into full-time ministry. What if God is not there? Why does he let evil continue, or as Bill Maher puts it, why doesn’t God destroy the devil? Instead of ignoring the question like so many Christians do, I went to God’s Word in the same way John the Baptist went straight to Christ for his answer.
In the late 11th century Anselm of Canterbury declared that in God “there is no before and after, but all things are present at once.” Bill Maher mistakenly tries to understand a God who exists outside time and space. If Maher were placed in a room with no windows he could not see past the man-made walls. Cut out the lights and he could not see at all, yet Bill believes he is smarter that the God who created the seemingly infinite universe. The answer to Maher’s question is that God has already destroyed the devil. Christ’s work on the cross was the death of Satan. God sees all things from beginning to end. In the world God has actualized Satan has been defeated. Our problem is we have temporarily been subjected to time.
Secondly, Bill Maher assumes Satan is the cause of this world’s problems. Sadly, many Christians believe the same way. James 1:14-15 says, “But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death (ESV).” Satan was simply the first to rebel against God. Although he did tempt Eve in the Garden, both Adam and Eve were lured away by their own desire to be like God (Genesis 3:5). Man would have done just fine bringing sin into the world without the devil’s help. So Bill…if God were to destroy evil then he will have to destroy you. If God would have destroyed evil in the Garden, He would have destroyed Satan, Adam, and Eve then none of us would exist. But just imagine this… What if God, knowing sin would enter the world, devised a plan from the beginning where He would send Jesus Christ to redeem part of humanity instead of destroying it all? In the words of Anselm of Canterbury, “Human nature, indeed, because of original sin has become subject to innumerable sufferings, and because of this capacity for suffering, divine grace fashions our incorruptibility.” Our knowledge of evil and consequences of sin, Christ’s death and resurrection, and the sanctification of the Holy Spirit are part of God’s process to make us incorruptible in heaven.
Thank you God for being bigger than Bill Maher’s intellectual capacity! (Check out 1Corinthians 15:53-57)
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Be that as it may, I gain my spiritual strength by finding the answers on my own.
Why doesn't God destroy the devil?
