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Could you elaborate on those experiences if you don't mind? It's true that people have claimed to be possessed by demons and I realize that many people believe this to be factual. For myself, a claim that is so incredible as that would require alot more than eyewitness testimony. Now if you could have actually captured a demon and brought it down to the local tv station to show the world that they're real or at least get a photo, a video or tape recording of how this demon manifested itself to you then that would make your case much stronger.
My encounters happened back in 1973. It was not possession in my case but heavy opression. It lasted for a period of 6 months and ended with a delieverence on a Saturday morning in a home in Crete Il. The demons names were Abjar and Altra. They were very active in my life for that 6 months. Over that period of time I would hear drums in the darkness and chanting. Voices were present, and they stated that they were going to kill me. From time to time my bed would begin to shake or objects would be moved to knew locations. Shadow people would appear and even my father saw one. In that six months time it became very hard to work, and only the playing of Christian music was the only thing that brought me comfort. There was such a heavy feeling around me. From the time after the delieverence 99% of the encounters with the strange goings on stopped. It was a very incredible time for me, and sometimes I still think about it. I do believe I have the tape recording somewhere of that delieverence.
Hmmm...1973 huh? Are you sure somebody didn't slip you some LSD when you weren't looking? It sounds like a bad LSD trip complete with flashbacks. I can imagine it would be incredible to you especially if you didn't know what was causing the hallucinations.
Of course! I would never be able to find an example of an atheist on this board trying to convince a Christian that god does not exist. Never! You win!
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know from experience that these people are the only ones who can rescue themselves so carry on, you have my blessing.
Thanks! But I have nothing to rescue myself from.
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Its easy, just keep them separate.
What does this have to do with my point? But okay lets keep the people using different methodologies separate. I suspect you won't be arguing about evolution with Christians anymore then?
There seems to be an endless supply of threads here where people ("atheists") argue with religious people that hold faith in such and such.
Whats the point of all this exactly? If one holds faith in such and such they do so without reason by definition, so why try to convince them with reason that what they believe is false? It seems like the definition of a pointless endeavor to me!
Precisely! Why argue at all? It's not one's place to convince anyone on spiritual matters...Faith is within only...not in the head. All argumentation is just mental stuff.
Argumentation does not deepen one's faith... It only serves to divide & conquer!!
Precisely! Why argue at all? It's not one's place to convince anyone on spiritual matters...Faith is within only...not in the head. All argumentation is just mental stuff.
Argumentation does not deepen one's faith... It only serves to divide & conquer!!
I agree that arguing is not what we should be doing because that's when you've given up on having an intelligent discussion and you're resorting to name calling and insults. I happen to think that discussing your beliefs, irregardless of what they might be, is a productive and healthy exercise because you're forced to examine your personal beliefs and the reasons that you believe them. It's true that atheists and religious people have completely different views of the world but as an atheist I think I've gained an understanding of various Christian points of view from discussions I've had on this forum and I think that there are Christians who have a better understanding of why atheists like myself think the way we do. There's nothing wrong with that at all.
I agree that arguing is not what we should be doing because that's when you've given up on having an intelligent discussion and you're resorting to name calling and insults. I happen to think that discussing your beliefs, irregardless of what they might be, is a productive and healthy exercise because you're forced to examine your personal beliefs and the reasons that you believe them. It's true that atheists and religious people have completely different views of the world but as an atheist I think I've gained an understanding of various Christian points of view from discussions I've had on this forum and I think that there are Christians who have a better understanding of why atheists like myself think the way we do. There's nothing wrong with that at all.
Yes, I totally agree. I have a much better understanding of atheists now. I had never talked to an atheists before City Data, and I still have a lot to learn.
And like you said, it helps me also in my faith, I have re-examined and thought deeper about what I believe and why.
What does this have to do with my point? But okay lets keep the people using different methodologies separate.
Why yes and its rather easy:
Creationism->religion
Evolution->science
It doesn't even matter if one is right or wrong as long as we acknoledge the fact of what they are and in what class they belong.
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Originally Posted by Humanoid
I suspect you won't be arguing about evolution with Christians anymore then?
why do you say that? Can I not defend the theory? If some people from either side of the debate is saying things that are wrong about the theory can I not correct them? If someone is arguing that it should be:
Creationism->science
Evolution->religion
Can I not refute their posts?
I haven't been here for all that long, but it seems to me that there are two different kinds of threads. There are those (on either side) with the clear intent of saying "ha, ha! this is why we are right and you are wrong!" and those that are more along the lines of "I don't understand your point of view, explain it to me." In the case of the former, I think it is a lost cause and there is no point. But, for example, I am a Christian, and you will never talk me out of my faith, but I may leave a discussion with more respect for a point of view or having taken a harder look at why I believe what I believe.
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