Asked, Not Answered (Christ, prayer, witness, preaching)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
All these comments over the last couple of days all read to me like our universal effort to work our way through all of life's challenges in whatever way works best for us. Makes the most sense for us...
If religion, well then of course everything revolves around this sense that life's ups and downs happen for a reason, and whether you want to blame a god or credit a god, needless to say all that is fairly easy to do if that is as one chooses, or believes.
If not religious like me, I feel I've experienced the full range of ups and downs although I realize there are always those who have had it better or worse than I do. Ultimately, I feel I've been fortunate well beyond what I deserve, and I am very grateful to feel this way. This too makes me feel good, and I feel no less good or less understanding about life and it's challenges as a result of being an atheist.
"Whatever works" as they say, and here's to that, but of course what works is mostly in our heads as we consider the life challenges dealt to us. There is all manner of perspective and beliefs that sometimes work for some people. Sometimes not. Some people can see the good despite the bad. This too is a coping mechanism and whatever the thinking or beliefs that allow some people to cope better than others is all that matters if feeling good is the the goal. Doesn't matter whether the thinking or beliefs are grounded in fact or truth. Doesn't matter at all! For some people anyway.
For others, believing in god is not the only way to feel good about our life experience and feeling good is not necessarily what it's all about. For others, the truth of these matters are not the same as for religious people. Nothing new about this I don't think.
Cheers and a good Sunday if you can make it happen. With or without help...
Terribly sorry, I wouldn't have started this thread if I knew I wouldn't be able to participate like I wanted. Life and identity theft got in the way so it is what is it. Still trying to straighten it out but I REALLY want to go back and read the thread. They have piggybacked my Google account so I'm severely infected. To the point where they can see everything I am doing, including here.
Oh well, thanks to everyone who participated, nicely.
There are two sides fighting each other in a war. Both sides ask God to step in and help them win the war. How ridiculous is that?
I think we think that God is some benevolent creature who makes judgements FOR one side and AGAINST the other side, but how can that be?
Some would say that the side who believes more or who follows the rules better or who prays harder, or who sacrifices more lambs, or bigger bulls is the one he/she/it is going to favour. Again, this is ridiculous.
It all comes down to how you (each of us) understands the way the Universe works and obviously the religous amongst you are going to have a different (and possibly ridiculous - see above) way of looking at it.
There are two sides fighting each other in a war. Both sides ask God to step in and help them win the war. How ridiculous is that?
I think we think that God is some benevolent creature who makes judgements FOR one side and AGAINST the other side, but how can that be?
Some would say that the side who believes more or who follows the rules better or who prays harder, or who sacrifices more lambs, or bigger bulls is the one he/she/it is going to favour. Again, this is ridiculous.
It all comes down to how you (each of us) understands the way the Universe works and obviously the religous amongst you are going to have a different (and possibly ridiculous - see above) way of looking at it.
Forget about war. You can apply the same thinking to sporting events.
Forget about war. You can apply the same thinking to sporting events.
I was thinking that, too. I used to watch a lot of boxing, and I always marveled (in not a positive way) when I would see boxers (particularly Latino boxers with the catholic tradition) in their corners praying to god. They shouldn't be praying to be successful in beating (in more ways than one) the other boxer. And they don't need to pray not to get hurt themselves since that is within their own ability to prevent by not boxing.
Really what this thread boils down to is that people do not get their prayers answered and the resulting need to explain how they actually were answered, or why they weren't, or how they are praying wrong, etc.
Either prayer "changes things" or it does not. If it changes things, then what things exactly. The questions are legitimate and understandable. I think the discussion has actually been productive, not so much in overtly changing anyone's mind as at least helping both sides understand the other and maybe generating a little bit of compassion rather than judgment for people who have not had uniformly good experiences with prayer. And I hope in helping some lurkers understand that if they have doubts about prayer, it is not just some weird defect in them, it impacts a LOT of people.
There are two sides fighting each other in a war. Both sides ask God to step in and help them win the war. How ridiculous is that?
I think we think that God is some benevolent creature who makes judgements FOR one side and AGAINST the other side, but how can that be?
Some would say that the side who believes more or who follows the rules better or who prays harder, or who sacrifices more lambs, or bigger bulls is the one he/she/it is going to favour. Again, this is ridiculous.
It all comes down to how you (each of us) understands the way the Universe works and obviously the religous amongst you are going to have a different (and possibly ridiculous - see above) way of looking at it.
Unfortunately, a lot of people have a similar perspective, and they attribute the success of the United States to God being on our side, "a Christian country." Whether it be how America began and developed into a major power, the wars we have won, the size of our economy..., all because God looks favorably on this country.
It does all come down to how everyone understands what is going on around us. No doubt about that, but unfortunately there is a lot of confusion instead of understanding about this sort of thing. Confusion that tends to perpetuate some of these notions that really need to go the way of the dinosaurs.
I was thinking that, too. I used to watch a lot of boxing, and I always marveled (in not a positive way) when I would see boxers (particularly Latino boxers with the catholic tradition) in their corners praying to god. They shouldn't be praying to be successful in beating (in more ways than one) the other boxer. And they don't need to pray not to get hurt themselves since that is within their own ability to prevent by not boxing.
I watch a fair amount of basketball, especially as it gets close to the finals. Good for me since I'm a Warriors fan, and the Warriors get to the finals pretty often. Curry who is considered by many to be the GOAT, makes the sign of the cross every time he makes a shot...
"I try to use every game as an opportunity to witness. I try to do a little signal every time I make a shot as a way to preach the message in little ways that I can," Curry revealed. "Each game is an opportunity to be on a great stage and be a witness for Christ. When I step on the floor, people should know who I represent, who I believe in."
"Whatever works" as I always like to say! And boy does it work for Curry on the court! Except for the preaching. I'm not sure how well that's working for him with others. I doubt he's enjoying the number of wins with others in that respect as he is able to provide the Warriors in any case, but who knows?
Really what this thread boils down to is that people do not get their prayers answered and the resulting need to explain how they actually were answered, or why they weren't, or how they are praying wrong, etc.
Either prayer "changes things" or it does not. If it changes things, then what things exactly. The questions are legitimate and understandable. I think the discussion has actually been productive, not so much in overtly changing anyone's mind as at least helping both sides understand the other and maybe generating a little bit of compassion rather than judgment for people who have not had uniformly good experiences with prayer. And I hope in helping some lurkers understand that if they have doubts about prayer, it is not just some weird defect in them, it impacts a LOT of people.
Well put and I agree...
Interesting to consider the impossibility of determining whether prayer works given how people's minds work and how what we think definitely affects our outcomes. For me there is no question it's all what goes on between our ears and nothing in the way of divine intervention, but of course we've all got our different opinions about all that sort of thing. Ultimately, I appreciate what you explain about "helping both sides understand the other," and to realize it's okay to question why there doesn't seem to be anything on the other end of prayer.
Nothing weird or to fear about that. Right you are...
Terribly sorry, I wouldn't have started this thread if I knew I wouldn't be able to participate like I wanted. Life and identity theft got in the way so it is what is it. Still trying to straighten it out but I REALLY want to go back and read the thread. They have piggybacked my Google account so I'm severely infected. To the point where they can see everything I am doing, including here.
Oh well, thanks to everyone who participated, nicely.
I hope you are able to untangle yourself from these problems that can be horribly frustrating. I'd pray for you, but..., well..., you know I'm an atheist. Still, I feel for you and wish you all the luck with all that. Just remember, "this too shall pass."
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
