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It is my view that religious assertions are best believed / subscribed to when you don't think about them too much. To passively not agree, actively not agree, or to *gasp* question their beliefs requires them to go to their empty well of answers / evidence and yes that angers them. The way they experience it is as "rudeness" or "divisiveness" or "disrespect" or even, at a primal level, an assault on their very identity. This lets them identify us, rather than the poor basis for their beliefs, as the primary difficulty or threat.
So the crime we commit is the crime of thinking unapproved thoughts, ultimately.
If only we could all live a life "to each his own." All "stay in our respective lanes" and "live and let live."
If we could all do so, all these different opinions and beliefs would really be of no matter. No more than some people enjoying one type of music while others enjoy a different type of music. Problem with religion, however, is that so many of those beliefs do not allow "to each his own." They tend to spin out of their lanes, and don't freely allow people to live and let live.
I doubt I need to site all the examples of what I mean, and if I did I'd be in trouble for getting into politics soon enough, but there's the rub right there. Otherwise, everyone has their right to think and belief whatever they like, and if not for the imposition on others when it comes to these notions, who would care what basis there might be for these beliefs? I sure wouldn't...
It just seems that the religious are fighting a losing battle, numbers have dropped off and it's a race to win back the lost. It's been my experience that the louder they protest, the less faith they have.
But where are they going? Are they becoming atheists and agnostics, or are they simply swapping their belief system for conspiracy theories?
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Originally Posted by Northsouth
I really do think that some of the posters here are seriously questioning and doubting their beliefs, why would someone get so angry with atheists unless they had some doubts? What crime have we committed by not believing in fairy tales?
I am not sure they are consciously questioning or doubting their beliefs, I think it may be a subconscious awareness that their beliefs are extraordinary, and there is some internal fight because their subconscious is agreeing with the reason why atheists do not believe.
But I agree with you, there is something somewhere that makes some religious users more aggressive towards atheists simply because we do not believe in any gods, whereas other religious believers who do not share the same beliefs get a free pass.
But where are they going? Are they becoming atheists and agnostics, or are they simply swapping their belief system for conspiracy theories?
They're going to their grave...
It's common knowledge that older folks tend to be more religious, and if I'm not mistaken, the trend toward lesser people being religious is because the older more religious folks are dying off and the younger folks coming behind are now simply less religious. And so on as each generation replaces the one before. At least that's part of it...
But where are they going? Are they becoming atheists and agnostics, or are they simply swapping their belief system for conspiracy theories?
I would say that authoritarian Christianity is constitutionally incapable, as a group, of self-reflection and can only triple down on it assertions. That is why they are descending into conspiracy theories and outright fascism. In fact The Federalist published just this week an essay stating that conservatism is dead -- there is nothing left to conserve -- and advocating for outright radicalism and fascism -- for example arresting parents for child abuse if they take their children to see a drag queen (their example, not mine). This isn't just a political thing, it is full of religiously-motivated thinking about what is moral and what is not. The authoritarian religionists can no longer get along without authoritarian politics. They are essentially one in the same anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
I am not sure they are consciously questioning or doubting their beliefs, I think it may be a subconscious awareness that their beliefs are extraordinary, and there is some internal fight because their subconscious is agreeing with the reason why atheists do not believe.
Not far from the mark at all, although I'd characterize it less as doubt as an understanding that their beliefs only work if not questioned / thought about too much, so questions or critiques are ruining their chosen and deliberately blinkered experience of their faith. Doubt is the most basic of sins for a reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
But I agree with you, there is something somewhere that makes some religious users more aggressive towards atheists simply because we do not believe in any gods, whereas other religious believers who do not share the same beliefs get a free pass.
Increasingly I don't think even that free pass for liberal believers will last much longer. I have long felt I had a lot of common cause with liberal Christians, and I think that fundagelicals are starting to figure out that these liberal Christians are traitors from their perspective. If they are writing editorials suggesting that "subjecting" one's own children to unapproved influences is inherently wrong regardless of one's position on (a)theism, then they will be on witch hunts that will not be limited to atheists and non-Christian theists. Though I suppose that extra little bit of overt rejection of Jesus will always be particularly odious to them.
I am fortunate that I no longer have minor children and that my extended family pretty much colors inside the lines at least in terms of our public lives. We will probably not be among the first to be targeted. But a lot of sincere Christians are about to be very surprised to run afoul of the budding thought police, I think.
I would say that authoritarian Christianity is constitutionally incapable, as a group, of self-reflection and can only triple down on it assertions. That is why they are descending into conspiracy theories and outright fascism. In fact The Federalist published just this week an essay stating that conservatism is dead -- there is nothing left to conserve -- and advocating for outright radicalism and fascism -- for example arresting parents for child abuse if they take their children to see a drag queen (their example, not mine). This isn't just a political thing, it is full of religiously-motivated thinking about what is moral and what is not. The authoritarian religionists can no longer get along without authoritarian politics. They are essentially one in the same anymore.
...
Increasingly I don't think even that free pass for liberal believers will last much longer. I have long felt I had a lot of common cause with liberal Christians, and I think that fundagelicals are starting to figure out that these liberal Christians are traitors from their perspective. If they are writing editorials suggesting that "subjecting" one's own children to unapproved influences is inherently wrong regardless of one's position on (a)theism, then they will be on witch hunts that will not be limited to atheists and non-Christian theists. Though I suppose that extra little bit of overt rejection of Jesus will always be particularly odious to them.
I am fortunate that I no longer have minor children and that my extended family pretty much colors inside the lines at least in terms of our public lives. We will probably not be among the first to be targeted. But a lot of sincere Christians are about to be very surprised to run afoul of the budding thought police, I think.
What I bolded is a really good analysis of what is happening!
The only thing that I would add, however, is that -- like many things -- adherence to morality standard is very much like a pendulum. For much of my life -- let's say the 1960s through perhaps 2010, liberal views and forces about morality were in the ascendancy, and sometimes to the excess; now the pendulum is swinging back. Who knows for how long or to what extent?
What I bolded is a really good analysis of what is happening!
The only thing that I would add, however, is that -- like many things -- adherence to morality standard is very much like a pendulum. For much of my life -- let's say the 1960s through perhaps 2010, liberal views and forces about morality were in the ascendancy, and sometimes to the excess; now the pendulum is swinging back. Who knows for how long or to what extent?
I think the open question is whether a tipping point is being reached such that this pendulum swing will be extreme, or perhaps very sustained -- or whether it is "business as usual". Of course even by your calculus we had 5 decades of liberal moral ascendancy, which IF the conservative order is as enduring / appealing, we're talking maybe 2060 before that passes. We also tend to assume that this back-and-forth is consequence-free, when even just 10 years or so into this potential conservative moral ascendancy we have already got very significant erosion of hard-won rights, in fact turning the clock entirely back to the 1960s, and there are definitely radicalized elements who intend to go much, MUCH further.
If all this were happening in a vacuum I'd be more sanguine, but when combined with the climate crisis, the precipice of World War III and everything even flirting with that does to destabilize civilization on a global scale, serial pandemics with more likely on the way concurrent with a breakdown of sound public health policy in the service of back-to-business unbridled capitalism, the fall of the middle class in favor of an increasingly powerful oligarchy, the rise of fascistic elements in politics in the US and elsewhere -- PLUS how these all interact ... I dunno, I'm sort of NOT very sanguine anymore.
I recently received a text from our credit card company to confirm whether I had just made a charge of over $1,400. I replied no, and they immediately cancelled my card. Also advised they would send me a new one ASAP, and in the meantime of course, I'm without a card. Fortunately I have other ones...
Not anything like the frustration or inconvenience you are describing, but I for one would definitely cancel everything and start over without hesitation. Cut off that criminal from everything they have to work with ASAP. A definite hassle, and why we're always warned to take all manner of precautions to protect our accounts, but ultimately these bastards have their ways, and we're forever having to deal with the "bad apples" among us.
Again lo siento and good luck with all that...
Thanks LearnMe, I have taken care of the hacking. And then I developed an upper respiratory infection. I am so addle-brained and exhausted from all this I think it made me sick. Sorry you had troubles too, what a creepy and violating feeling. This criminal was a girl I'm pretty sure, don't ask me how I know. Well, apparently she even knew the name of my OLD internet too because she used it to attach to my account, just added the number 20000. It is very bizarre and hard to explain so I won't.
Yes there are so many bad apples out there, what the hell is this world coming to? I would go back and reply to all the responses to my posts but I see no point since the thread has basically gone to the thread graveyard.
Thanks to all who participated.
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Well, apparently she even knew the name of my OLD internet too because she used it to attach to my account, just added the number 20000. It is very bizarre and hard to explain so I won't.
I would go back and reply to all the responses to my posts but I see no point since the thread has basically gone to the thread graveyard. 