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Finding keys is easy and can be done in a snap. Getting rid of hunger and starvation takes a lot of work and time and requires human compassion and labor, and that seems to be working, since there are so many fewer people starving now than even 25 years ago.
So maybe prayer is working in the sense that Francis of Assisi meant it:
It is no use walking anywhere to preach unless our walking is our preaching.
And there are even atheists involved in answering that prayer!
Yes, I HAVE thought about this 'stuff', Sam. You don't need to be so condescending...
Mink pointed out the following:
Quote:
Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, Berean Study Bible. Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. Revelation 12:7
Why would anyone pray to god for peace when the OT is full of wars, including right in heaven, and bloodshed and suffering?
There are MANY reasons the surgery might have gone wrong:
* The surgeon did not have enough experience with this particular operation.
* The patient had an anatomical anomaly that made things difficult.
* The patient had an underlying condition that prevented healing.
* The surgical nurse had a late night.
* The surgical resident left a gauze pad behind when they closed up the incision.
* The hospital made a mistake and used hydraulic fluid to disinfect surgical instruments.
* Someone forgot to wash their hands.
* The surgical team operated on the wrong side of the body.
* The surgeon has a cocaine addiction.
* The orderly got the rooms mixed up and wheeled in the wrong patient.
* The surgical suite was not cleaned well enough after the prior patient, who had an infection.
* The patient didn't follow the instructions for pre-surgical prep.
* The internal sutures tore loose.
* The anesthesiologist got distracted and delivered the wrong amount of anesthesia.
* The surgeon nicked a nerve when they removed the diseased organ.
* God had a reason for surgery going wrong.
Now... we know that every single one of those things has happened, with one exception. That is, we have actual verifiable evidence that they occurred (with one exception). Some of them happen often enough that hospitals develop policies and protocols to prevent them. Why would we skip past all the potential, rational, likely reasons... and land on the ONLY one for which we have zero evidence?
Setting aside surgeries, this same question can and should be asked for all the things we attribute to God... whether it is surviving cancer, landing a job, giving birth, being born, meeting a spouse, evolving new species, watching a volcano erupt, or finding those lost keys.
Quote:
Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, Berean Study Bible. Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. Revelation 12:7
Why would anyone pray to god for peace when the OT is full of wars, including right in heaven, and bloodshed and suffering?
Hopefully, you do not have to and the grave will be the end for you, if that is what you so desire.
You can beat it if it's all irrelevant to you (I know, I know, some people do not accept evolution and some people do not approve of how others achieve their orgasms, etc..... ), otherwise you can perpetually obsess about it and continue try to goad others into your position. People tend to feel safer when things are more like themselves. This is most evident when people are in fight or flight mode; however, some appear to learned to live in this state for decades.
You have made your perspective pretty clear. Clear to me in any case, and no doubt you see much if not all this exchange differently than I do. Ultimately, I engage when I am interested to do so for reasons I don't think you understand very well. Then too I simply ignore what is irrelevant or of no interest to me.
Describe it all in whatever other terms you wish, as you insist, but no doubt we're all with different perspectives here. Mine certainly very different from yours. That's all.
I'll beat it from this thread as I have beat it from many others. When I feel like it...
You have made your perspective pretty clear. Clear to me in any case, and no doubt you see much if not all this exchange differently than I do. Ultimately, I engage when I am interested to do so for reasons I don't think you understand very well. Then too I simply ignore what is irrelevant or of no interest to me.
Describe it all in whatever other terms you wish, as you insist, but no doubt we're all with different perspectives here. Mine certainly very different from yours. That's all.
I'll beat it from this thread as I have beat it from many others. When I feel like it...
No need to get your undies in a wad...Your coin analogy demonstrated your frustration with trying to goad others into your enlightened world view.
My "version" of God includes a God who is both loving AND wrathful. Just because He doesn't wipe out all of the sickness, hunger, crime, selfishness, pride and other evils RIGHT NOW, doesn't mean He doesn't have a plan to do so in the future.
Yes, God IS allowing all this bad stuff to happen...for now. And it will change, but it will change on HIS timetable; not *(y)ours*.
How many more centuries of suffering before he gets started on it?
When there were problems in my school, if I hadn't gotten to work fixing them, I wouldn't have remained as principal very long. Same concept with being a christian versus being an atheist. Results.
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