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Old 05-27-2015, 11:59 AM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
11,162 posts, read 7,657,354 times
Reputation: 12523

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
As I said, we are here, so let's deal with it.

Perhaps we never wanted to be presented with this choice of "cake or death" but since that's what we have been handed, so let's deal with it.

The good part is, there is a choice of cake.
Good, because I really need to know what kind of cake, before I choose between it and death.
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Old 05-27-2015, 12:26 PM
 
1,490 posts, read 1,217,594 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
Good, because I really need to know what kind of cake, before I choose between it and death.
Yep...if its like that dam lemon cake I had a few months ago I am likely going death myself.
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Old 05-27-2015, 12:35 PM
 
Location: West Virginia
16,732 posts, read 15,739,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
Good, because I really need to know what kind of cake, before I choose between it and death.
Choose carefully. It could be a gay wedding cake.
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Old 05-27-2015, 12:52 PM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
11,162 posts, read 7,657,354 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
Choose carefully. It could be a gay wedding cake.
Lol.
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Old 05-27-2015, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
10,537 posts, read 6,186,932 times
Reputation: 6580
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post


Lets put it this way,

Hope your good deeds and your good thoughts will outweigh your short comings and your mistakes.
And God is pleased with you IF there is one out there.

And if it happened to be the God I believed in, I will tell him, "This Cruithne guy is a cousin, and a good friend".
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
You would be correct. (Except for the guy part.)

Any God would swing wide the gate for her and people like her, whether they believed in the Gatekeeper, or not.
Well Cheers Me-dears!



I appreciate the sentiment. Thank you.
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Old 05-29-2015, 03:57 AM
 
Location: Caverns measureless to man...
7,588 posts, read 6,648,396 times
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And when we're though with this one, we can move on to "Do Eric Clapton fans like pizza?"
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Old 05-29-2015, 05:41 AM
 
3,402 posts, read 2,794,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert_The_Crocodile View Post
And when we're though with this one, we can move on to "Do Eric Clapton fans like pizza?"
Isn't that the same question as "do theists like pizza?" After all, Clapton is God...

-NoCapo
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Old 05-29-2015, 10:52 AM
 
6,115 posts, read 3,102,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDriver View Post
That's way too vague a question.

Are you talking about atheists, as in people who believe positively "there is no God" - or just "non-religious" people in general, like Founding Fathers who were deists but not part of organized religion.

Are you talking about laws or criminal justice - or about punishment for the wicked after death?

You need to be more specific. This question's like asking "Do Christians believe in having fun"?
Actually it's as tricky as asking, "Do Atheist believe in right and wrong"?

The answer varies from Atheist to Atheist.

So you can answer the question they way you like it. It's an open discussion. You can respond whatever comes natural to you.
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Old 05-29-2015, 11:10 AM
 
6,115 posts, read 3,102,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
I agree, we are here and we should deal with it, but dealing with it is not hoping that an invisible being will make everything ok someday. Dealing with it is making a difference in the here and now.

If someone is holding my feet over the fire, there is no real choice. "Believe or you will tortured forever." That is not a choice, it is a threat. Just like if someone holds a gun to my head demanding something or they will kill me.

See, this is where the difference of opinion lies.

You start off again with "Do or else" position.

I would like to step back and think like this.

My feet are NOT held over fire.
I am standing on a diving board - there is a pool of fresh water on my right and a pit of fire on my left. And I am asked to make a choice which pool I want to jump in.

OR

To slightly elaborate it.
Say I find myself in a hallway where I see a door at the other end.
I see a few instructional booklets on a table near me.

I can choose NOT to read any booklet.
I can choose to read ALL or a few booklets.

From there, it's possible that no booklet makes sense to me.

Or if they make sense to me, I pick the best one that I can understand.

In my case, I chose an instructional book that tells me, there are two lines on the floor in this hallway.
There is a red line and there is a blue line.

If you follow the blue line - which perhaps requires taking some organized steps - and it's OK if you make mistakes, you can try again. But if you follow the blue line, you may end up in a soothing and comfortable place.

If you follow the red line which comes with least restrictions - there is a chance that you may end up in a place you may not like a whole lot.

So from this instructional book, I chose to follow the blue line.


I guess there is a small common ground between me as a believer and you as an Atheist.
Did we want to be on that diving board ? Perhaps not.
Did we want to be in that hallway? Perhaps not.

But then again, since we are here, lets deal with it.

So let me take the liberty of updating your statement with blue text, the way I look at it.

"Believe and TRY to obey, and you will be extremely pleased or disobey and take your chance to be held accountable for your actions.
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Old 05-29-2015, 11:53 AM
 
3,402 posts, read 2,794,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
See, this is where the difference of opinion lies.

You start off again with "Do or else" position.

I would like to step back and think like this.
I think the real difference is that you believe the originator of the choice to be either morally beyond questioning, or somehow a phenomenon much like nature.

We don't blame a natural phenomenon, we just work around them. But a person, a decision making, volitional entity who chooses to put me in a bad position, I can blame. Ultimately you are approaching God as an it, a force of nature, a universal law, whereas we are approaching God as a being with a will who chooses and controls.

If God is a volitional being who is all powerful, if he is not bound by some higher law than himself, then criticizing him for the cruel, vindictive, and evil position he is placing mankind in (worship me or I will torture you!) is a perfectly reasonable response.

After all, as an all powerful being he had literally an infinite number of options of how to deal with mankind. Any choice he made would be made for no other reason than his own will, his own pleasure. Meaning he has chosen to design a world where he can torture the majority of its inhabitants, just because he felt like it...

-NoCapo
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