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It amazes me the power that religious figures have over people, how the top leaders live and profit...and yet that does not seem o bother some people, maybe they think their leaders are blessed or something while they must work two jobs, in some cases, to support their lavish lifestyles. Sheep to the slaughter I think.
Very fascinating. I have to say I am intrigued by the various ideas brought forth in this discussion. I think that a true test of your belief or religion (whatever that may be, God related or not) would be to come on a forum like this and see if you end up questioning yourself.
Now just out of curiosity has anyone experienced a miracle? Has anyone been permanently healed of disease (not your cousin or friend of a friend)? Has anyone known something without having to have it explained to them, something they couldn't have possibly known or suspected (and wasn't just lucky)? I could go on, but if the evidence is there I would love to hear it, not because I am being sarcastic but because I really want to know. Even if your experience may be jaded, misguided or just flat out wrong, I am interested, and why not? If what you believe is not true what will it hurt me to hear about it?
My experience is that I was raised a certain way, never forcefully and am fairly convinced that I have felt something that I could not understand. Sometimes I have felt an echo of thought that does not seem characteristic of me (but maybe I am just growing as a person?)
I am told that before I was born my parents had a still-born baby (and would have stopped then and there if the child would have lived). I am told that there was a purpose to my existence, but maybe that was just wishful thinking? Maybe just the desire to be something greater than another human in the world?
Then again regardless of when I die or if I am good or evil the ripples of my actions will continue long after I am gone.
Is our desire for something greater than ourselves evidence enough of its existence? Or are we all just feeding each other some kind of propaganda?
Could there be some universal truths that have just been swallowed by time? Or are they built into our hearts and minds? When we "feel" if something is right or wrong is it a mere culmination of our society and upbringing or is there some deeper existence that reaches through all cultures and societies.
Are the rights and wrongs we know to be true a result of our religions and beliefs or are the religions and beliefs a result of the greater understanding of right and wrong?
But I get lost in my own thoughts again and have to deal with reality. I think I have felt something before. I don't know if it is God, Jesus, Buddha, the Oversoul or something beyond them all (and beyond our understanding).
I have seen people praying out of habit and out of belief. Many times the same people. I have seen prayer break down the walls of anger among people that have nothing to gain from breaking down another's walls but to help them live a better life, at least that is how it appears.
I have talked in my head to something I have felt was there and felt was not there (at different times).
How can anyone who doesn't believe in anything greater live a "happy" life when others go on suffering, starving and dieing in terrible ways? I suppose they were raised not to care, or that it isn't their responsibility to care.
If you believe in a relationship with Jesus Christ, how would you explain Hell? That Hell is for people that consciously chose Hell over Jesus?
Why would a creator be so foolish as to give us free will? How is that a gift if it can damn you for eternity? In our understanding of the world good cannot exist without evil and vice versa, but if God is indeed all powerful why didn't He make this impossibility a possibility? And since he didn't, would Heaven really be magically perfect? We would have nothing to compare it to except Hell and if we were constantly aware of Hell while we were in Heaven wouldn't we mourn for those trapped there and not enjoy our perfect existence? And if some how we could feel perfect and happy despite it all I ask again why wasn't this automatically created from the beginning?
Say you ultimately end up in heaven? Do you think that is really the end? Or does some Satan-esc figure do the same thing or something entirely different and screw it all up again?
I seem to have heard every argument for both sides and it leaves me with no answers, which is why I must continue to pursue them.
Sorry if I offended anyone or sound arrogant or presumptuous, I am genuinely searching as I'm sure many of you are as well.
I don't feel a void or emptiness in my life, especially one that many Christians seem to think I must have. I LOVE my life, and all the things in it. Death to me is about as scary as the time before I was born. We all remember how awful that was, now don't we? I encourage you to drop the prison shackles, and set yourself free from the chains of religion and dictated thought and live your life to the fullest without worrying whether or not there is some figurehead in heaven watching you. Chances are, you're worshipping the wrong deity anyway, so if you're wrong you're no better or worse off than any freethinking atheist.
I too feel no emptiness in my life. I believe religion is a great way for people to avoid having to face or do anything about themselves. The emptiness they felt before was their own issues. Rather than work on them, they go with religion which allows them to put the responsibity for how they act on someone else.
I too feel no emptiness in my life. I believe religion is a great way for people to avoid having to face or do anything about themselves. The emptiness they felt before was their own issues. Rather than work on them, they go with religion which allows them to put the responsibity for how they act on someone else.
That is the same emptiness that everyone feels when they do not feel like their life has a defined purpose. People flock to religions because every religion has a defined purpose. Most also have a general guide book on how one should live their life. Of course many of these guides are from hundreds or thousands of years ago. And many exist only to benefit those involved in the religion in terms of wealth or power(see the old Roman Catholic church or modern cults with power hungry leaders).
You do not need religion to find purpose in life, although it can give you some ideas. For example if someone decided they wanted to emulate Jesus and literally strive to do good things in the world, that would probably be rewarding, but they don't need to label themselves as a member of any specific religious sect that believes in Jesus to do that.
It also takes a lot of independent thought to create or adapt your own set of beliefs. It takes even more for those beliefs to be somewhat unselfish. Honestly, if you were a member of a religion your entire life it would be extremely difficult to think of a life without that religion or at least without that set of definition and purpose. Sometimes people need a greater reason to live than just to experience life. They want the death of loved ones, children, etc to mean something not just in the universe but to their own specific life as well.
I cannot blame these people, nor can I judge their beliefs to be any less valid than mine. You could see them as blindly following some religion but if you decide to follow your own path without anything to guide you, isn't that also blind in a way? I just don't appreciate when they try to ascertain that their beliefs are more valid than mine, or try to coerce me into their system for monetary or other purposes (not out of genuine concern for me and my life direction).
When you think about it though, religion does save people from things; addictions, fights, etc. Not all the time though, and in many cases it causes problems or even wars. But you cannot apply a blanket statement to everyone. I do know some people that would never shove their religion down your throat, they see it as a way of life.
You may want to keep in mind that the richest people tend to give the most to charities, both in dollar amount and percentage of income(was on the news tonight.)
While it is definately true that there are some really nasty rich people who really prey on the populace to fuel their own wants, I find it hard to really fault the group as a whole given the sheer amount of philanthropy.
Bill Gates is a good example I think. He is wealthy beyond belief and certainly lives an extravagant lifestyle, but he gives away masses of his money to charity.
I wonder how Bill Gates pays the people at the bottom end of his corporation? Many rich use donations to charity as good pr. Apparently it is quite effective.
That is the same emptiness that everyone feels when they do not feel like their life has a defined purpose. People flock to religions because every religion has a defined purpose. Most also have a general guide book on how one should live their life. Of course many of these guides are from hundreds or thousands of years ago. And many exist only to benefit those involved in the religion in terms of wealth or power(see the old Roman Catholic church or modern cults with power hungry leaders).
You do not need religion to find purpose in life, although it can give you some ideas. For example if someone decided they wanted to emulate Jesus and literally strive to do good things in the world, that would probably be rewarding, but they don't need to label themselves as a member of any specific religious sect that believes in Jesus to do that.
It also takes a lot of independent thought to create or adapt your own set of beliefs. It takes even more for those beliefs to be somewhat unselfish. Honestly, if you were a member of a religion your entire life it would be extremely difficult to think of a life without that religion or at least without that set of definition and purpose. Sometimes people need a greater reason to live than just to experience life. They want the death of loved ones, children, etc to mean something not just in the universe but to their own specific life as well.
I cannot blame these people, nor can I judge their beliefs to be any less valid than mine. You could see them as blindly following some religion but if you decide to follow your own path without anything to guide you, isn't that also blind in a way? I just don't appreciate when they try to ascertain that their beliefs are more valid than mine, or try to coerce me into their system for monetary or other purposes (not out of genuine concern for me and my life direction).
When you think about it though, religion does save people from things; addictions, fights, etc. Not all the time though, and in many cases it causes problems or even wars. But you cannot apply a blanket statement to everyone. I do know some people that would never shove their religion down your throat, they see it as a way of life.
I follow and gain beliefs based on the reality I see around me. There is nothing blind about this at all. This is common sense. I view the natural order of things and I choose to take lessons from these. I utilize trial and error. There is a vast difference. I do not live by blind faith. I live by what I see works and what does not. I never made a blanket statement mentioning anything about shoving religion down anyone's throat. I merely stated what I see as concrete evidence that these people are generally avoiding the need to change with an excuse that they are saved. Many people go to church every week. I do not see many who are not extremely grudging when it comes to actual financial help for others. I do feel that everyone is entitled to their beliefs. I, however have seen great damage and hypocrasy in religion at large. Not everyone is this way. I have never stated that. But I challenge someone to show me that the majority of these people follow their own belief systems.
Many people view their politics just like a religion and practice their beliefs in the same manor.But then politics has no realo rules like religion does, Much of what is basic to western society comes form religion.Just like politics many use religion for their own person benefit which is not surprising since they are humans.Reading the bible will convince you that not many who call themselves Christian will go to heaven.
EVeryone thinks they have the RIGHT answer!
Faith, good thoughts.....if that was true, then why do good people die who did nothing wrong? People say have faith and believe and god will reward you? Now that is just silly, isn;t it? I know many evil people in this world who lead very good lives and very good people, who had died young...this just makes no sense to me, sorry
What you believe mostly comes from your culture and where you were born, and your experiences...If I had been born in another land, I would of been a believer of another faith...and vice versa...
All religions can't be right...they conflict, don't they? they sure do! People have killed in the name of religion, they still do? And this is to suppose to somehow make me a believer?
Men created religion..Now even some women...
Religion stinks to high heaven, if it exists.
I wanted to believe but I can't...when I critically think here, it just makes no sense and the more I think of it, the more it scares me too...I think I am an atheist...
As I have stated in many other post, there is only one Book on earth that speaks of the future before that future happens. And that Book would be the Bible. None of the other religions outside of the Christian faith does this. And they do not do this because only God knows the future. Before you become a atheist, you might want to look at the Bible one more time.
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