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OK, I skipped over the eight pages of replies so if this has already been stated just ignore it. God DID show himself and perform miracles to the Israelites during their time in exile after leaving Egypt. The problem was that they came to rely on miracles and quickly lost faith if God didn’t provide for them right away when they needed it. In short, their loyalty and devotion to God was weak in the absence of God’s direct action. God wants us to be strong in our devotion to him and that means believing in him through faith. There is something about believing through faith that is more valuable to God than belief through proof. The reason God doesn’t prove his existence to everyone is because he wants to give us a choice to believe or not. Those that believe will be better for it and stronger (in some way that God knows) than if we just believed because there was in-your-face proof. We can’t understand it completely but, then again, we are not God. Think of it like this. What would make you happier: if your wife trusted you to be at a certain place at a certain time (faith) or if she knew you would be there because she had a GPS tracking device on you and could monitor your progress (proof)?
I'm still agnostic on the issue and have actually been looking into Deism lately.
Anyways, if there is one, why won't he just show himself? He created planets, galaxies, stars, US, yet he can't give a simple "hi" to us. You know, like I'm talking to a real person.
Why when religious people say they "talk" to god or we must "talk" to god and "listen", it's all so subjective and in our heads?
It's what I've said ever since I was in my teens. Why would a caring god drop by 2000 years ago, show up born from a virgin, walk on water, cure leprosy by healing, feed 5000 hungry pilgrims plus women and children who also ate with two fish and five loaves, turn water into wine, raise the dead, be hung from a tree and bled like a hog then show up fit as a fiddle two days later...then disappear and never come back for a refresher? I mean just how unbelievable is that?
Nobody except his close knit crowd ever told any of that. The Jewish historian Josephus wrote volumes about everything that happened in that area during the same period and barely mentioned the name of Jesus. It's totally illogical.
I'm still agnostic on the issue and have actually been looking into Deism lately.
Anyways, if there is one, why won't he just show himself? He created planets, galaxies, stars, US, yet he can't give a simple "hi" to us. You know, like I'm talking to a real person.
Why when religious people say they "talk" to god or we must "talk" to god and "listen", it's all so subjective and in our heads?
God ,as humans understand Him to be, is all around us. All one has to do is to look and truly "see" what is around them.
OK, I skipped over the eight pages of replies so if this has already been stated just ignore it. God DID show himself and perform miracles to the Israelites during their time in exile after leaving Egypt. The problem was that they came to rely on miracles and quickly lost faith if God didn’t provide for them right away when they needed it. In short, their loyalty and devotion to God was weak in the absence of God’s direct action. God wants us to be strong in our devotion to him and that means believing in him through faith. There is something about believing through faith that is more valuable to God than belief through proof. The reason God doesn’t prove his existence to everyone is because he wants to give us a choice to believe or not. Those that believe will be better for it and stronger (in some way that God knows) than if we just believed because there was in-your-face proof. We can’t understand it completely but, then again, we are not God. Think of it like this. What would make you happier: if your wife trusted you to be at a certain place at a certain time (faith) or if she knew you would be there because she had a GPS tracking device on you and could monitor your progress (proof)?
Interesting post, but I would still say that if someone has faith or trust in another person, it is based on past experience.
If my wife really knew me and what I was about, and had no reason to be suspicious of me, there's no need to monitor my progress.
But what if I had a history of cheating or doing suspicious things?
I actually don't think anything is wrong with faith, IF it's based on something.
I can have a family member come up to me and say "give me $5,0000 to start a business...just have faith in my business". Should I just say "hey you're family! No problem!"? Or should I take a look at who he is as a person, his character, his business plan, and then decide?
The reason many people have "lost" faith in god, is because despite what the religious book said, it never came true. "I will never leave or forsake you", yet plenty of people who have prayed to be saved from something weren't. Can you really blame them for losing their faith?
Rewarding blind faith is illogical and saying we can't understand it because we are not god is a cop out, and an excuse maker as to why said god does illogical things.
Think about it...you believe everything in this life by what? PROOF. Everything except your religion. Why?
If I told you to send me money via Paypal and you would live for an extra five years, you wouldn't believe me? Why?
You drive your car with gas in it because you know it needs gas to run. You don't on whim decide to "have faith" that you can refill it with water and it will run.
Can you name a single instance in your life where you make a decision based on BLIND faith?
But if God came back NOW then we could video tape it and then there would never be any doubt. Is he just shy?
people would just be saying the video was photoshopped or somehow altered or an illusion or a magic trick. that's what people say now about all the footage of 'miracles' you can find on youtube now.
There is something about believing through faith that is more valuable to God than belief through proof.
Rather, there is something about believing through faith that is more valuable to Religion than belief through proof. By demanding that you have 'faith', the Church can avoid awkward questions and keep the coffers full without needing to provide any answers.
Quote:
Think of it like this. What would make you happier: if your wife trusted you to be at a certain place at a certain time (faith) or if she knew you would be there because she had a GPS tracking device on you and could monitor your progress (proof)?
Do not confuse faith with trust. They are two different things.....
1. 'I trust my car to start first time this morning because it has done so every other morning.'
2. 'I have faith that my car will start first time this morning even though it has never ever done so any other morning'.
Do you see the difference?
1 is based on the verifiable evidence of the past.
2 is based on no evidence whatsoever.
Rather, there is something about believing through faith that is more valuable to Religion than belief through proof. By demanding that you have 'faith', the Church can avoid awkward questions and keep the coffers full without needing to provide any answers.
Do not confuse faith with trust. They are two different things.....
1. 'I trust my car to start first time this morning because it has done so every other morning.'
2. 'I have faith that my car will start first time this morning even though it has never ever done so any other morning'.
Do you see the difference?
1 is based on the verifiable evidence of the past.
2 is based on no evidence whatsoever.
As is typical, a member of TAC exhibits the usual obsessive/compulsive hang-up over "religion"...and can't see anything but from THAT viewpoint.
A quick search of the definition of "FAITH":
faith
/feɪθ/ Show Spelled[feyth] Show IPA
–noun 1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
"Trust" is also listed as a synonym for "faith".
There ARE other "uses" and "meanings"...and they could be presented...but "faith" can/does mean the same thing as "trust", depending on context...aaaaaaaand if you can shake the hang-ups.
Unfortunately, Raf..."religion" has a lot of people "roped and tied"...and there is NOTHING you, or a thousand like you put together, are likely to do about it. And if any of you REALLY wanted to make a difference...ragging on a dozen or so strangers on this board is about as ineffective and inefficient a method as you could get. OTOH...there is a sort of twisted amusement factor (I know all about that) to it. So, carry on!
The LEAST you could have done is thrown in some of that good snark, Rafius!
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