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I got that from the beginning.
But your word choice seemed rather vehement on the issue.
Let me ask you this.. hypothetically,
Totally against your character so do not go off before you answer , lolz.
Say the guy did trust you.
Because as you said you showed honesty and integrity at every turn.
Say you cheated one time never to be repeated.
A child was born from this union.
Say after 3 years your husband wants a no fault divorce.
Nothing bad on either of your parts, he just wants to be single.
And in the proceedings he finds out your child together is not his.
Would it be wrong of him to not want to support the child?
Or to get out of the child's life for good because of the betrayal?
I do understand what some ladies are saying about what is good for the child.
i am not equating rape with infidelity but the children of rape sometimes get indirectly mistreated because of their mother's memory of it.
To some men, betrayal is one of the harshest things that can happen.
Especially if he has to take on extra responsibility because of it.
I'd feel the same compassion if a man had an outside child in a relationship.
And the wife had to either compromise or leave because resources and time had to be given elsewhere.
I understand its a trust issue with some, but with others its 18+ years of your life just gone.
First off, I wouldn't cheat. If I got to the point I wanted to cheat, I'd leave so we wouldn't get here. But I'll humor you. First, he'd know about the infidelity and second, he'd know the child may not be his. If he chose to establish himself as the father anyway (with or without a DNA test because if I cheated, he'd have the right to ask, though if he was going to choose to stay, I would hope he wouldn't because then there'd always be the hope it was his child (I'm assuming I don't know here)), I'd hold him to it. If he bowed out at birth, I'd go find the baby's real father. By staying and establishing himself as the father, he took the place of the real father and denied the child a relationship with his bio father. That was his choice but he doesn't get to make the child pay for it now. You don't get to take that one back.
This is one of the things I deeply respect my husband for. He knew that his oldest son might not be his and chose to stay in the marriage because he loved his ex. When the marriage broke up, years later, he stood by his decision to raise the son that does not carry his DNA. IMO, only a cad would ditch the child years later when they no longer wanted mom.
IF dh had not established himself as dss#1's father, his ex might have found his real father and he might have had a relationship with him. His decision to stay may have cost this child a relationship with his bio father. After having done that, he owed his son a father.
I've always admired dh's character here. He did the right thing even though it was the hard thing and not fair to him.
The psych classes I took taught that.
I digress....
I can't really buy that. One of my undergrad degrees is psych and much of it is just shooting in the dark based on interpretations by one that is further interpreted willy nilly by another.
Quote:
So you are saying that there are very few people who can show integrity about everything but cheating?
Yea, I'd say that. I understand that extreme circumstances can lead people to act out of character, but even then, a partner that knows his/her mate is going to pick up on behavior changes. Beyond all that, I simply cannot buy into the idea of person walking right who would put their mate at risk for an STD. There is something very wrong with you (general you) if you would do that to another person and I'm sure that kind of carelessness manifests in other areas of life.
Quote:
That there have to be other signs?
For some reason I am not seeing that as a general situation,
I can see it happening sometimes, but not all the time.
Because a person could be faithful and no reflect in other ways.
Seems to me you are describing the 'perfect' situation.
Based on hope more so than reason.
And all it takes is one time to create a child.
And all the dedication , time, and energy in a person's repertoire can be used and still not detect any foul play.
Again, I don't buy into that. Things aren't rosey every where else except for a random cheat. No matter what the reason. You cheat because you had too much to drink? Well, you have a drinking problem and if you have a drinking problem than you obviously have other problems. You cheat because your marriage is on the rocks? Obviously you have a load of problems than just a random cheat. You are who you are no matter what you're doing and it's reflected in how you live. If a person does not notice how his/her partner is living it shows another host of problems.
Imo/Ime, it's all interconnected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nichirenx
Actually i would not get counseling.
I would just leave because thats the logical thing to do if someone does not trust me.
According to some that is.
Well, everybody contends with their situations differently and we all have different boudaries within our relationships. Keep in mind, tho, that this stuff simply does not come up for a lot of people (say 50% of marriages).
Ivory, did i one time in th thread post what you should do?
No.
It just intrigued me how strongly you presented your view.
The fact that you used lying , cheating ho multiple times means its quite serious.
Unless you use those words on a normal basis.
Not here to change you mind love, just to represent the fact that some guys will go to great lengths to protect themselves even if it means losing a woman they care about.
i never referred to you as untrustworthy.
I'd pass the test EVERY TIME.
Why would I need to cheat when I can either break up or divorce?
You must be speaking of men controlled by their penis.
IMO, being accused of lying, cheating and not knowing who fathered my child IS serious. VERY SERIOUS. If my relationship has deteriorated to that point, it's time to get out. It's not getting any better.
As I said, being willing to take a test doesn't make you trustworthy. It just means you think you can pass the test...this time...or you're hoping you won't get called on it. It proves nothing about your character. If you pass, it only proves you didn't lie...this time...
If you don't trust someone, you don't trust them. No test is going to change that.
Actually I never had those issues.
I was using them to demonstrate other ways how someone would feel a lack of trust.
Since the issue of a paternity test seemed such a boon to some.
It's a pretty good example. It highlights dysfunction. There is something very wrong with a marriage when there's a lack of trust.
First off, I wouldn't cheat. If I got to the point I wanted to cheat, I'd leave so we wouldn't get here. But I'll humor you. First, he'd know about the infidelity and second, he'd know the child may not be his. If he chose to establish himself as the father anyway (with or without a DNA test because if I cheated, he'd have the right to ask, though if he was going to choose to stay, I would hope he wouldn't because then there'd always be the hope it was his child (I'm assuming I don't know here)), I'd hold him to it. If he bowed out at birth, I'd go find the baby's real father. By staying and establishing himself as the father, he took the place of the real father and denied the child a relationship with his bio father. That was his choice but he doesn't get to make the child pay for it now. You don't get to take that one back.
This is one of the things I deeply respect my husband for. He knew that his oldest son might not be his and chose to stay in the marriage because he loved his ex. When the marriage broke up, years later, he stood by his decision to raise the son that does not carry his DNA. IMO, only a cad would ditch the child years later when they no longer wanted mom.
IF dh had not established himself as dss#1's father, his ex might have found his real father and he might have had a relationship with him. His decision to stay may have cost this child a relationship with his bio father. After having done that, he owed his son a father.
I've always admired dh's character here. He did the right thing even though it was the hard thing and not fair to him.
You folks have my respect.
More heart than me.
Kudos.
I can't really buy that. One of my undergrad degrees is psych and much of it is just shooting in the dark based on interpretations by one that is further interpreted willy nilly by another.
Yea, I'd say that. I understand that extreme circumstances can lead people to act out of character, but even then, a partner that knows his/her mate is going to pick up on behavior changes. Beyond all that, I simply cannot buy into the idea of person walking right who would put their mate at risk for an STD. There is something very wrong with you (general you) if you would do that to another person and I'm sure that kind of carelessness manifests in other areas of life.
Again, I don't buy into that. Things aren't rosey every where else except for a random cheat. No matter what the reason. You cheat because you had too much to drink? Well, you have a drinking problem and if you have a drinking problem than you obviously have other problems. You cheat because your marriage is on the rocks? Obviously you have a load of problems than just a random cheat. You are who you are no matter what you're doing and it's reflected in how you live. If a person does not notice how his/her partner is living it shows another host of problems.
Imo/Ime, it's all interconnected.
Well, everybody contends with their situations differently and we all have different boudaries within our relationships. Keep in mind, tho, that this stuff simply does not come up for a lot of people (say 50% of marriages).
Did not take psych in college.
Took it as a part of something else.
Thats what they called it.
And it actually works pretty good as far as reading people.
Its more based on possibilities than structure.
It might be because all the people I have known who were cheated on claimed they did not know it.
They may have ignored the signs but I really did not care enough about the situation to go that much in depth.
Admittedly, I caused it in my situation because my affection just died because I had to see her everyday.
It really did not upset me because people have flaws and i see infidelity as just another one.
However if I would have had to pay for that kid for 18 years, that would have been a problem. do not want to go there.
It might be because all the people I have known who were cheated on claimed they did not know it.
They may have ignored the signs but I really did not care enough about the situation to go that much in depth.
Admittedly, I caused it in my situation because my affection just died because I had to see her everyday.
It really did not upset me because people have flaws and i see infidelity as just another one.
However if I would have had to pay for that kid for 18 years, that would have been a problem. do not want to go there.
As I have clearly noted, I find doing that to man to be criminal. It's makes me mad to think about it.
But, our little argument here is about the striking differences between relationships/people and why the charge would be offensive to some. On that end I can totally relate to Ivory. People that are cheating on their spouses are not sacrificing, busting their arses, giving everything they have for their marriages compared to those that cheat. It would simply be a slap in the face as far as I'm concerned. And I have little doubt that many of the men that have issues with women on this forum have no idea what it's like to be with woman that sacrifices and gives everything for her marriage.
The proposal for mandated anything in my mind is an attempt to dumb down our fine marriages to that of dregs.
As I have clearly noted, I find doing that to man to be criminal. It's makes me mad to think about it.
But, our little argument here is about the striking differences between relationships/people and why the charge would be offensive to some. On that end I can totally relate to Ivory. People that are cheating on their spouses are not sacrificing, busting their arses, giving everything they have for their marriages compared to those that cheat. It would simply be a slap in the face as far as I'm concerned. And I have little doubt that many of the men that have issues with women on this forum have no idea what it's like to be with woman that sacrifices and gives everything for her marriage.
The proposal for mandated anything in my mind is an attempt to dumb down our fine marriages to that of dregs.
Why would a person have issues if their current mate or a previous one sacrificed for the sake of the situation?
That is the reason for a lot of the forums.
Dissatisfaction.
And men have never really been able to voice theirs until cyberspace got popular. That is why you see so many posts about it.
Men are voicing their objections to what is going on.
Traditionally the whole 'men are dogs' situation had hold in many circles.
Now having experienced the other side of the coin, guys are responding with vehemence.
From politicians to citizens to criminals , the ones of us just trying to go about and enjoy life have issues because some people will not choose integrity over deceit.
Personally I have never had many issues with women.
Except the whole being seen as a potential husband thing.
Which still escapes me to this day.
lolz.
I think mandating it would be rather amusing to someone not affected by the process.
It would be interesting to see how many outside kids some men have and how many men are raising other men's children.
And to see how many of the men stepped up and/or stepped out due to the new information.
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