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Strangely, it seems the majority of the posters here are talking sex, having sex, not having sex, withholding sex. I take a broader view that "getting the milk for free" can very simply equate to the context in which it was first used in another thread. That thread was inquiring how long a woman would be willing to stay in a relationship without a ring or the promise of one.
If two people are living together and one partner is marriage-minded and the other is satisfied with the status quo, how is the issue resolved? If the expenses are split exactly 50/50; if the household chores are split 50/50; if both parties are employed and neither is interested in procreating, then there probably is no need for a stronger commitment.
But when one of the parties wants to "make it legal" with an eye to buying a home, having children, being a family, then somebody is looking for a ring. You cannot comfortably do that without legal sanction, because one of the parties can walk away at any time. And don't bother to say "it worked for us" because there will always be exceptions. We're talking about generalities.
I suppose I've thought about this far more than it deserves. But so, too have the folks who have discussed it for eight pages thus far. It's nothing more than an old saying. Kind of like "If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas."
I suppose I've given this way more thought than it deserves.
Exactly. I think does mean just that. One person is perfectly content with it being just how it is, while the other wants a committment but that's not going to happen.
Not only is the committment-minded one giving up his her goals to satisfy the other's goals, he or she is locked in a going-no-where kind of relationship as far as those goals, wasting their time instead of finding someone with compatible goals.
If someone is looking for marriage and committment, this isn't how to go about it.
What's also often true is the couple never actually discussed if the relationship was going anywhere. One may be under the illusion that it's a step before marriage while the other had no such plans in mind.
Strangely, it seems the majority of the posters here are talking sex, having sex, not having sex, withholding sex. I take a broader view that "getting the milk for free" can very simply equate to the context in which it was first used in another thread. That thread was inquiring how long a woman would be willing to stay in a relationship without a ring or the promise of one.
If two people are living together and one partner is marriage-minded and the other is satisfied with the status quo, how is the issue resolved? If the expenses are split exactly 50/50; if the household chores are split 50/50; if both parties are employed and neither is interested in procreating, then there probably is no need for a stronger commitment.
But when one of the parties wants to "make it legal" with an eye to buying a home, having children, being a family, then somebody is looking for a ring. You cannot comfortably do that without legal sanction, because one of the parties can walk away at any time. And don't bother to say "it worked for us" because there will always be exceptions. We're talking about generalities.
I suppose I've thought about this far more than it deserves. But so, too have the folks who have discussed it for eight pages thus far. It's nothing more than an old saying. Kind of like "If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas."
I suppose I've given this way more thought than it deserves.
People are saying that because that's what the phrase means......
it's no worse than those quotes about women not settling, while men have to settle down. In the context of the world that we live in, the irony is that it's absolutely true.
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Originally Posted by Djuna
It's just another one of those expressions to subtlety control women's actions. Instead of allowing women to think for themselves and to enjoy sex without guilt, it tells us we have to use sex and our body to exert control over men.
To start, the benefits largely exist for healthy, happy marriages. Those living in dysfunction and abuse are another story.
Anyhow, a wife is going to care about her husband's health. From his teeth, to his diet, to him seeking medical attention when needed. That's why married men live longer in part. She's going to care for him when he's ill. You are not going to get that from a variety of women or anyone for that matter besides your mother. As a personal anecdote, I put my husband through college. I would not have done for anyone except my husband and perhaps future children. This contributes to his future job security. A wife is going to care about her man's dreams and goals and help him achieve them.
A healthy marriage is about family. Little more is as important for human thriving as family and the community that results from family
I agree that a "marriage" should be about creating a functional family, if that were the case and the result of modern marriage today, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Just as you do for your husband, i'm sure he would do the same for you. That reciprocation is the crux of true interpersonal relationships. Those benefits whether they come from the husband or wife should be a given, not a magical bonus.
Does a man need marriage in it's current incarnation?
No.
I don't think anyone in their right mind does.
I know there are plenty of posts that i've made on this forum, stating my opinion but I know that one day, perhaps when i'm much older I would like to start a family. There's lots of things that i've seen through my travels, a lot of lessons that i've learn that I would love to impart on my progeny.
Although I've also seen the darker side of modern interpersonal relationships. Relationships that aren't based on mutual empathy, rather the state regulating through all of its archaic personifications.
I've seen men literally raped of their fortunes, reputations tarnished, divorced from the role of being fathers to their children. All because one party either got bored, or tired of the relationship. Both parties can lie but the court system is more lenient and in favor to female parties, regardless of whether you were in the wrong or not.
Why would a man acquiesce to something so harmful willingly?
A good deal of people in our respective circles, whether they be your grandparents or parents had probably married at a time when the world was a very different place. A place where positive gender models were in abundance and not glared at or disdained through lens under the guise of being pc.
A lot of the marriages we see, people try to model on those times. In those days your grandfather didn't have to worry about no fault divorce. He didn't have to worry about his nuts being slammed with some judges gable. A grandmother didn't have to worry about her children being 35, childless and single as well.
If marriage is the route that people want to go, I think there needs to be a disregard to this "cake and eat it too attitude".
Everyone is guilty of this attitude, we do more harm by lying to ourselves instead of acknowledging it.
I can't speak for all men on this forum, but I know in my case a marriage would not be conducive at all to my life. I have a great set of friends, a loving family and a girlfriend with a good sense of humor. That's the milk for me, the honey is a given and I get that as a result of my ambition.
I don't like to compromise in my life. There will always be changes that you have to adjust to, but to compromise..that's one of the most unhealthy things you can do in your life.
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Originally Posted by Braunwyn
That's ridiculous. Men benefit 10x over in a marriage. Married men earn more, experience greater career development, live longer, are healthier, and report greater level of happiness than their single counterparts.
Married men don't live longer, People who surround themselves with healthy relationships do.
on a side note -
Henpecking is one of the unrecognized leading causes of stress and divorce.
Henpecking is one of the unrecognized leading causes of stress and divorce.
Henpecking occurs when people don't do what they were supposed to do without being told.
You honestly think that people who have to nag feel good about it? It's irritating that you have to keep after a grown person to act like a thoughtful, grown person who can take enough responsibility and have enough gumption to do an effin' chore.
I agree that a "marriage" should be about creating a functional family, if that were the case and the result of modern marriage today, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Modern marriage is not all inclusive. That's what the issue is really about. Modern marriage, home ownership, financial security, fulfilling careers, etc (add whatever you like to the list) are things that are not going to be attainable for many, perhaps most. But, that is what marriage is ultimately about. I imagine that's what people want. It's just not something everybody is going to be able to manage.
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Just as you do for your husband, i'm sure he would do the same for you. That reciprocation is the crux of true interpersonal relationships. Those benefits whether they come from the husband or wife should be a given, not a magical bonus.
Agreed and that's how it goes in happy marriages. Something important to note is that marital success, or the happiness experienced in marriage, is dependent on the individuals. These people were doing well before they got married and they subsequently do well during their marriage.
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Does a man need marriage in it's current incarnation?
No.
I don't think anyone in their right mind does.
Keep in mind that this "man" is not all men nor is this "marriage" all marriages.
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I know there are plenty of posts that i've made on this forum, stating my opinion but I know that one day, perhaps when i'm much older I would like to start a family. There's lots of things that i've seen through my travels, a lot of lessons that i've learn that I would love to impart on my progeny.
Although I've also seen the darker side of modern interpersonal relationships. Relationships that aren't based on mutual empathy, rather the state regulating through all of its archaic personifications.
I've seen men literally raped of their fortunes, reputations tarnished, divorced from the role of being fathers to their children. All because one party either got bored, or tired of the relationship. Both parties can lie but the court system is more lenient and in favor to female parties, regardless of whether you were in the wrong or not.
Why would a man acquiesce to something so harmful willingly?
This is about choices. Men who marry equal earners do not face financial loss. Men and women cannot lie about our W2's, bank accounts, investments, 401k, how much property we own, et al assets. Either way, given that a majority of people don't have much to speak of as far as assets go, I don't think it's a relevant point. It would only be if most men had fortunes to lose. That's not the case.
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A good deal of people in our respective circles, whether they be your grandparents or parents had probably married at a time when the world was a very different place. A place where positive gender models were in abundance and not glared at or disdained through lens under the guise of being pc.
A lot of the marriages we see, people try to model on those times. In those days your grandfather didn't have to worry about no fault divorce. He didn't have to worry about his nuts being slammed with some judges gable. A grandmother didn't have to worry about her children being 35, childless and single as well.
When I look to my grandparent's generation I see it through a different lens than you do. The gender roles are harmful. They inflict harm, just as any stereotype roles do.
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If marriage is the route that people want to go, I think there needs to be a disregard to this "cake and eat it too attitude".
Everyone is guilty of this attitude, we do more harm by lying to ourselves instead of acknowledging it.
I can't speak for all men on this forum, but I know in my case a marriage would not be conducive at all to my life. I have a great set of friends, a loving family and a girlfriend with a good sense of humor. That's the milk for me, the honey is a given and I get that as a result of my ambition.
I don't like to compromise in my life. There will always be changes that you have to adjust to, but to compromise..that's one of the most unhealthy things you can do in your life.
This makes sense. Marriage, along with a million other things in life, is not for everyone and it certainly should not be entered into willy nilly.
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Married men don't live longer, People who surround themselves with healthy relationships do.
On average men do not tend to do that outside marriage. It's exactly why marriage benefits men and where women do not receive the same kind of benefit.
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on a side note -
Henpecking is one of the unrecognized leading causes of stress and divorce.
Possibly, but given that women file for divorce at significant rates I don't know if that's the reason.
Henpecking occurs when people don't do what they were supposed to do without being told.
You honestly think that people who have to nag feel good about it? It's irritating that you have to keep after a grown person to act like a thoughtful, grown person who can take enough responsibility and have enough gumption to do an effin' chore.
I was thinking this plays into high divorce rates. Our culture, to a degree, leans towards laziness.
The reason people buy the cow is that they find one who gives a lot more milk than the other cows, plus she's easy to get along with. How many guys know women who want sex several times a day, every day, and have a lot of fun with it? How many guys do you think would let a woman like that slip away? Most guys know a good thing when they see it, and wouldn't want to risk losing it. So they step up to the plate and buy the cow and a really nice barn for them both to live in.
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