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The whole problem of this topic reinforces the reasons why anonymous paternity testing literally exploded. Paternity kits are often in shortage in local drugstores in many towns and counties. Most guys do it for the peace of mind. It's done in secrecy because of attitudes displayed in this topic.
An average profile is not like on Maury Povich's show at all. Close to half paternity kits are bought by women older than 45 y/o. This means that those are probably alleged grandmothers buying kits instead of their sons, rather than the mothers. Men have a share close to half as well of those anonymous tests. it's only logical because a mother has legal options to issue court-ordered testing at the expense of the state and if the alleged father is proven to be the biological father, he is to pay the expenses as well. Men have to pay their whole costs regardless if they prove that they were mistakenly named as parents or not. They also have less legal options due to how the legislation places the power dynamics. They generally cannot take samples of the child without the mother knowing it, thus they opt for anonymous paternity testing and taking the samples without the mother's consent. They break the law to save themselves any further problems. They can send samples anonymously and see the results from the safety of their home.
Average case of court-ordered paternity testing is rather either a single mother that wants to place the father on birth certificate to collect due child support, or the single mother who wants to name the deadbeat father to qualify for some of the government-sponsored benefits that demand the father to be named, or the father who disputes his putative paternity.
An average victim of paternity fraud isn't at odds with the mother at all. Those who are at odds with their wives/girlfriends will generally demand paternity testing regardless if they doubt it or not. They don't need to fear that the woman will be mad at them, that the relationship/marriage will break apart, that the mother will alienate them from their children - that is generally what already happens. A classical paternity fraud victim is completely different case. Paternity fraud is a unique situation where a non-biological father is literally duped to take care of a child that he definitely never would take care of if he knew it wasn't his. This is a no-brainer that a man doesn't want to have his wife bang around with other men and then have them to raise a child that isn't their own. . They are not suspecting of any fraud and even if they asked anything their wives would feel insulted that they even doubt. When those men happen to find out about the fraud, it's generally too late and there are very severe, traumatic, emotional consequences that will last for as long as they live and there's no way to correct them. Very few worse things that can happen to one human being when compared to paternity fraud. Downplaying of paternity fraud just proves what many posters here think of men in general. I think that most men would rather want to be raped than find out that the child isn't their biological child after all the invested years of care, money and energy in general, the emotional consequences will be far more severe. Only one thing is ultimately bigger damage that one can inflict upon other human being - to take their life away by your deliberate choice. And some may argue that various things can be just about the same or even worse in their opinion though.
It's not just economical fraud which is very expensive as well, it's also seriously disturbing emotionally to raise a child that you find out it isn't your own, which is exponentially worse than the cheating itself. You look at the child that is the result of infidelity and that child is tied to you by legislative orders. That child will also inherit share of your property when you die together with your other biological children, or top of the whole lifethat you lived and will live through. Fraud works even if the father dies or kills himself, the intended benefit for mother and her offspring is unquestioned even after victim's death. The guy can end up in jail if he decides to fight by not paying for child support of that child as well, which just adds up to the problem.
Consequences are very severe not just for the guy who raised those children but the children themselves, lots of traumatic experiences.
The guy may even develop an ever-lasting bond with the child, just like a raped mother can develop an ever-asting bond with a child conceived by her rapist if she gives birth, but the child itself will be a walking trauma for her on top of all traumas that (s)he lived through. This is the truth even though a raped woman would have a child which is biologically her own. Not to mention about raising a child that isn't your own and which is a result of paternity fraud. Even though the mother would probably love a child that she raises, regardless of being a rapist's child as well, everyone on this board would not object even a second to a thought about the trauma she faces, because the torment is just incredibly high and she may be reminded of the deed forever and ever each time she looks at the child's face. And while we all would have full compassion towards the mother, the compassion flies out of the window in the case of paternity fraud. Somehow a number of women have the need to devalue it, downplay it, or outright attack the victim of the fraud. You'll never live through it, and you better hope that your sons doesn't live through it.
General conclusion is that this shuold be punished by law, jail penalties. Check out the amount of damages paid by the hospitals who accidentally switch the babies, even though those cases are extremely rare due to all the precautions. Millions of dollars of damages are paid for each individual case on account of emotional damage, family disturbance and having their lives ruined, alienation from their biological child, economic expenses, etc.
But this is illusory to expect with such stances and attitudes in legislation. This is why men MUST opt to be more responsible by themselves. Nobody will feel pity towards them. Everyone will in fact bash them instead. Including the legislation. They should obviously "man up".
When it comes to economic aspect, I'll be blunt. I hired accountant company to manage my company's finances and pay the bills/invoices that I authorize. If they abused their position to steal my money and get caught, they'd not only pay out for all the damages, but they'd end up in prison.
On the other hand, legislation rather rewards the people who conducted paternity frauds either deliberately or because they thought there's a chance that the guy is most probably the father (and keeping mum about the other possibilities), while punishing the victim of the fraud.
But would you really leave him if he, hypothetically, asked for one? I mean there a celeb look a likes, but that doesn't mean they aren't related.
Here's the thing - he would never ask for one. I can't explain my relationship to someone who isn't involved in it directly. All I can say is that our relationship is built on a foundation of trust, love, communication, respect, lust, and all sorts of other good stuff. He knows where I am pretty much all the time and vice versa - not because we check up on each other but just because we tell each other pretty much everything. Like I said - there was never a doubt in either one of our minds that we made our son together - so in order for him to ask me for a paternity test - he would be essentially becoming a different person. My gut reaction would be that I would be horribly hurt and offended that this person that I trust with my life doesn't trust me. But the thing is - I don't know how I would react because my husband would never ask.
Here's the thing - he would never ask for one. I can't explain my relationship to someone who isn't involved in it directly. All I can say is that our relationship is built on a foundation of trust, love, communication, respect, lust, and all sorts of other good stuff. He knows where I am pretty much all the time and vice versa - not because we check up on each other but just because we tell each other pretty much everything. Like I said - there was never a doubt in either one of our minds that we made our son together - so in order for him to ask me for a paternity test - he would be essentially becoming a different person. My gut reaction would be that I would be horribly hurt and offended that this person that I trust with my life doesn't trust me. But the thing is - I don't know how I would react because my husband would never ask.
You can explain it, but you don't want to which is fine. You're don't have to do anything you don't want to do. Like I said, it's more about peace of mind than trusting you. Kinda of like making sure you're kid cleaned up his room. Sure they generally clean it, but it doesn't hurt to look and admire the good work.
Where do the assumptions come from that all women are sleeping around, cheating, taking men for everything, and that all men are pushovers who take it and pay the bill?
Why would a man, who is fully trusting and confident in his relationship be demanding of a paternity test? If he does not possess an ounce of suspicion, he will naturally assume getting such a test would be an utter waste of time and money.
If they don't want the test, then fine! I do not get what the big deal is? Chances are vastly, overwhelingly, that they are the father in these cases anyway.
Because, dear brainiac, if he gets duped it's all his own fault. He should have knew it. He's not the victim, he's responsible for everything. People will not feel any compassion and will bash him down, together with legislation.
He is there to "man up".
Victims of paternity fraud aren't the people who have reasons to doubt about the paternity fraud. That's really a no-brainer. Biggest problem in here is that it's the women who should be the ones insisting on paternity tests being done. They aren't, and you can see the attitudes towards it.
Do you think that the guys wouldn't want their girlfriends to hand them over the tests with the worlds like "I know it's yours, I don't even need to look at"?
That's the point in here. Everyone pretends that nobody is doing it. It's similar to how people will do abortions in secrecy. Apparently nobody is doing it, right? Well, guess again. Numbers will prove it otherwise.
Same is the truth with paternity testing. And while court orders are numerous by itself, most men cannot even risk to demand to get to court due to shaming and attitudes displayed in this topic. They risk alienation and getting expelled from their home over the simple test!
So they'll opt for a safe play instead because it's available to them. They'll simply sneak out to their local drugstore or a drugstore on the other part of the city where they work, buy paternity kit(s) and secretly do the test upon their newborn child, for the peace of mind of everyone. Just like women buy pregnancy tests, for the sake of mind.
That's why those are called "peace of mind tests" by many. They are done by many guys who don't even suspect of a fraud but they simply want to do it so that there's no second thoughts. A number of those guys DO get a surprise that they'd never discover otherwise.
Anyone denying this is just an idiot. And I'd beg the moderation not to alter the "I..." word. I don't want to even argue about it anymore. Paternity frauds do happen even with all those paternity tests and widespread testing and ever-increasing DNA testing industry. They do happen because lots of guys don't suspect about it. Not because the guys know that their wife is was banging with someone else and at which day exactly.
#1 Here's the thing - he would never ask for one. I can't explain my relationship to someone who isn't involved in it directly. All I can say is that our relationship is built on a foundation of trust, love, communication, respect, lust, and all sorts of other good stuff. He knows where I am pretty much all the time and vice versa - not because we check up on each other but just because we tell each other pretty much everything.
#2 Like I said - there was never a doubt in either one of our minds that we made our son together - so in order for him to ask me for a paternity test - he would be essentially becoming a different person. My gut reaction would be that I would be horribly hurt and offended that this person that I trust with my life doesn't trust me. But the thing is - I don't know how I would react because my husband would never ask.
Addressing the #1 bold part
Your husband is thus the classical cuckold material and there is nothing wrong with it since most men do not do paternity testing routinely YET.
And he is obviously lucky because you aren't that type that would abuse it. A smaller portion of women WILL have sex with other people before they date someone else and will hide this fact when they get pregnant and have any remote doubt about who the father may be. They simply won't say. A number of women will also have affairs, will eventually end up pregnant and will never say it to their boyfriends/husbands.
Addressing the #2 bold part.
A large number of men (and increasing one indeed) will also issue secret paternity testing exactly because the attitude that you display. They are afraid of your reaction and they simply want to know the truth. Imagine if you never had the access to pregnancy tests and you wanted to have peace of your mind. Now just think that this thing is exponentially worse for any husband.
Addressing the #1 bold part
Your husband is thus the classical cuckold material and there is nothing wrong with it since most men do not do paternity testing routinely YET.
And he is obviously lucky because you aren't that type that would abuse it. A smaller portion of women WILL have sex with other people before they date someone else and will hide this fact when they get pregnant and have any remote doubt about who the father may be. They simply won't say. A number of women will also have affairs, will eventually end up pregnant and will never say it to their boyfriends/husbands.
Addressing the #2 bold part.
A large number of men (and increasing one indeed) will also issue secret paternity testing exactly because the attitude that you display. They are afraid of your reaction and they simply want to know the truth. Imagine if you never had the access to pregnancy tests and you wanted to have peace of your mind. Now just think that this thing is exponentially worse for any husband.
Like I said - it's impossible to explain a really healthy, happy, trusting relationship to an outsider. I don't blame people for not understanding or thinking that my husband makes a perfect target. I assure you - he is not a pushover nor is he someone who trusts blindly.
How other people live their lives is no concern of mine.
Like I said - it's impossible to explain a really healthy, happy, trusting relationship to an outsider. I don't blame people for not understanding or thinking that my husband makes a perfect target. I assure you - he is not a pushover nor is he someone who trusts blindly.
How other people live their lives is no concern of mine.
That's perfectly okay but you obviously don't understand some things. Your relationship indeed is healthy and that's excellent thing, best case scenario. People should base relationships on trust and be each other's best friend before anything else. This trust would be much better if women had the opposite stance than the one displayed in here. This is illusory to believe though. But if you think that your husband wouldn't like having you hand him over unopened paternity test while claiming that you don't need to look at, you're wrong. Even though he doesn't doubt, the mere thought of a possibility to know the definite truth means a lot to him, which is why guys don't want to even think about it. They don't want to think about it, they either do the test or they push their mind far away about something out of their control.
This is also one of main reasons for double standards in regards of sexual history. Not only that the guy is disadvantaged on other legal things regarding family life in general, but this notion is very crucial as well. That's why everyone displays the attitude that they do. They don't want to go through second thoughts and all people turn to "old fashioned" type of bride who is supposed to be virgin or who had the least sexual experience (taking her years into account, a woman over 30 y/o is hardly going to be virgin, for instance, and they know it).
Majority of children aren't the result of paternity frauds and most people don't cheat either. And a typical victim of paternity fraud isn't a pushover either.
A typical victim of paternity fraud is someone who follows certain codex and that codex is the thing. A typical victim of paternity fraud is exactly the guy like your husband. This is why they often invest good amount of time to find the already mentioned traits in the woman they plan to live with. You can mark my words... ask other men if you want, but ask them to answer sincerely. And someone always marries the bad persons, sometimes it's the mutual case, sometimes it's not.
You'd be shocked at the number of court orders for paternity testing, as well as the number of anonymous paternity tests.
There is a steady increase of the trashy shows, TV series or movies that depict paternity testing in this or that way. Maury Povich had a paternity dispute as the central topic in his show again and again. But you shouldn't be surprised that you see more and more TV shows or series depicting paternity testing more and more often. It's because there is a huge taboo yet it's known that testing is widespread. Younger generations are eager to do it more and more often. Maury Povich-alike shows are the consequence, not the cause. Just like secret paternity testing is the consequence of the attitudes displayed on this topic.
Main thing is that paternity testing should be mandatory. Applying Medieval methods to determining or auto-assigning paternity in this day and age is just stupid and counter-productive.
Imagine having thefts and murders determined by Medieval methods.
An average people who opt for secret testing don't look like people on Maury Povich show, they are usually middle class folks instead.
You can explain it, but you don't want to which is fine. You're don't have to do anything you don't want to do. Like I said, it's more about peace of mind than trusting you. Kinda of like making sure you're kid cleaned up his room. Sure they generally clean it, but it doesn't hurt to look and admire the good work.
No, I can't explain it to people who either won't or don't want to understand. And even if I tried to explain it - unless you've experienced it, I don't think you could understand. I've tried to explain it - but things just keep getting thrown back at me because you don't understand. And that's okay.
That's perfectly okay but you obviously don't understand some things. Your relationship indeed is healthy and that's excellent thing, best case scenario. People should base relationships on trust and be each other's best friend before anything else. This trust would be much better if women had the opposite stance than the one displayed in here. This is illusory to believe though. But if you think that your husband wouldn't like having you hand him over unopened paternity test while claiming that you don't need to look at, you're wrong. Even though he doesn't doubt, the mere thought of a possibility to know the definite truth means a lot to him, which is why guys don't want to even think about it. They don't want to think about it, they either do the test or they push their mind far away about something out of their control.
This is also one of main reasons for double standards in regards of sexual history. Not only that the guy is disadvantaged on other legal things regarding family life in general, but this notion is very crucial as well. That's why everyone displays the attitude that they do. They don't want to go through second thoughts and all people turn to "old fashioned" type of bride who is supposed to be virgin or who had the least sexual experience (taking her years into account, a woman over 30 y/o is hardly going to be virgin, for instance, and they know it).
Majority of children aren't the result of paternity frauds and most people don't cheat either. And a typical victim of paternity fraud isn't a pushover either.
A typical victim of paternity fraud is someone who follows certain codex and that codex is the thing. A typical victim of paternity fraud is exactly the guy like your husband. This is why they often invest good amount of time to find the already mentioned traits in the woman they plan to live with. You can mark my words... ask other men if you want, but ask them to answer sincerely. And someone always marries the bad persons, sometimes it's the mutual case, sometimes it's not.
You'd be shocked at the number of court orders for paternity testing, as well as the number of anonymous paternity tests.
There is a steady increase of the trashy shows, TV series or movies that depict paternity testing in this or that way. Maury Povich had a paternity dispute as the central topic in his show again and again. But you shouldn't be surprised that you see more and more TV shows or series depicting paternity testing more and more often. It's because there is a huge taboo yet it's known that testing is widespread. Younger generations are eager to do it more and more often. Maury Povich-alike shows are the consequence, not the cause. Just like secret paternity testing is the consequence of the attitudes displayed on this topic.
Main thing is that paternity testing should be mandatory. Applying Medieval methods to determining or auto-assigning paternity in this day and age is just stupid and counter-productive.
Imagine having thefts and murders determined by Medieval methods.
An average people who opt for secret testing don't look like people on Maury Povich show, they are usually middle class folks instead.
My husband would be baffled if I handed him an unopened paternity test. And he'd probably be offended as well. We don't live in a Jerry Springer world and would never even think of doing anything like that. You can speak for yourself - but you really can't speak for my husband.
As for the reasons why I think paternity tests will never be mandatory - my reasons are listed below. Nobody shouting for paternity tests has addressed any of those issues. Like I said - this has nothing to do with my personal feelings on paternity tests but on the practicality of trying to make them mandatory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93
As for mandatory testing - I've said this before and I'll say it again -
1. Who is going to pay for it? I highly doubt insurance companies are going to be willing to foot the bill.
2. The hospital's purpose is to care for the health of it's patients - not the relationship well being of it's patients. Hospitals do not want to get involved in personal matters - those are our responsibility.
3. There are many single mothers or father's who aren't present for the birth of the children - would they be exempt? If they are - then people could just leave the father off the birth certificate in the first place. What are you going to do - chase down every possible match and force him to give a DNA swab? What if it was a one night stand and she doesn't know who the father is? What if it was a sperm donor?
4. Many men won't WANT to give a sample of their DNA and will see it as a violation of their rights.
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Who has to know anything?