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The problem with a lot of arguments like this is that Cary "is" accessible to just about everyone. There are thousands of affordable apartments and some that are subsidized in Cary. So people that are economically challenged can rent at first. Also, I previously posted that there are a number of very inexpensive homes that can be purchased. Again, different than the fiction that some people believe.
I absolutely agree that affordable housing exists in Cary, yes. My question is, though, that if the percentage of people living below the Federal poverty line in Cary is one-third of that in surrounding cities... does that not imply that there are fewer affordable housing units than in those cities, and/or that the average rental rate or housing cost is higher than those cities? Or is there another factor I've missed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by In & Out
Not to try to get to political, but the government should stay out of trying to be the diversifier's of population. Let people live where they want to. Don't force things on people.
I guess my big concern with this is -- government has acted as an anti-diversifier for years. Redlining of neighborhoods for lending purposes was done with tacit government consent for years. So were urban renewal programs that targeted certain neighborhoods in the 1950s for the bulldozers.
So are policies in places like suburban Boston and Long Island that set hefty minimum lot sizes as a way of raising the property values, i.e., keeping the riff-raff out. So too are policies in places like this that have town-based rather than county schools -- creating disparities in school options between rich and poor towns.
The matter of people living where they want to is fine and good, but we should remember that government's not a neutral actor. It's contributed to economic segregation in many ways for years. Government policies to counteract this aren't social meddling to any greater degree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by In & Out
If pockets of Durham or Raleigh have issues with economically challenged population and the problems it brings with it, fix it at its source. Don't try to dilute it and make it less apparent by force feeding some of it to each town in the area. That is just masking the problem.
Again, I'm trying to abstract this conversation and not talk about Cary/Durham/Raleigh per se. My point is that it isn't "masking the problem." It's that the problems associated with poverty grow exponentially as poverty grows linearly.
Achieving economic balance isn't masking problems. It's the only way to solve some of them.
But, my friend, I accept we'll likely agree to disagree on this one!
A lot of what is discussed in this thread is opinion - blandness, perfection, McMansion, quality of life, etc -and you love Cary, we get it. But one thing that is undeniable and supported by FACTUAL EVIDENCE is that Cary is, as a town, one of the more expensive municipalities in which to live in the triangle area. Not better, not worse, just less affordable...and what you get at any cost is likely going to be less house/land for the money than you would somewhere else...it's that simple.
The fact that you've posted that there are X listings under 200k in Cary means nothing. You can find junk in any market. In Bel Air and Beverly Hills, there are always a certain number of listings WELL BELOW median market prices of neighboring even when compared to nearby and inferior communities.
I promise you if you take a $175k home in Cary and put it alongside a standard offering at that same price in Raleigh, Durham, Wake Forest, Clayton, Fuquay, Holly Springs, etc etc etc, I can PROMISE you that the home in Cary will not compare favorably.
So please, do feel free to continue on your "I love Cary" parade...you have many others driving floats alongside you...but to show a certain number of listings in a certain price range and pretend that this means that Cary is as affordable as the other nearby towns/cities is just flat out incorrect.
I do not disagree on the pricing points. I only disagree with the notion that I said it is "just" as affordable. My point is that not "all" housing, including apartments, are for the rich only. There are options here and some people do not think there are. Just keeping it real.
I do not disagree on the pricing points. I only disagree with the notion that I said it is "just" as affordable. My point is that not "all" housing, including apartments, are for the rich only. There are options here and some people do not think there are. Just keeping it real.
I don't think anyone has argued that Cary is only for the rich, but would you at least agree that there are far fewer options for affordable housing in Cary than there are in almost any other city/town in the triangle area, save maybe for Chapel Hill? Whatever the reason, I think that is the one inescapable truth here, for better or worse.
I absolutely agree that affordable housing exists in Cary, yes. My question is, though, that if the percentage of people living below the Federal poverty line in Cary is one-third of that in surrounding cities... does that not imply that there are fewer affordable housing units than in those cities, and/or that the average rental rate or housing cost is higher than those cities? Or is there another factor I've missed?
I guess my big concern with this is -- government has acted as an anti-diversifier for years. Redlining of neighborhoods for lending purposes was done with tacit government consent for years. So were urban renewal programs that targeted certain neighborhoods in the 1950s for the bulldozers.
So are policies in places like suburban Boston and Long Island that set hefty minimum lot sizes as a way of raising the property values, i.e., keeping the riff-raff out. So too are policies in places like this that have town-based rather than county schools -- creating disparities in school options between rich and poor towns.
The matter of people living where they want to is fine and good, but we should remember that government's not a neutral actor. It's contributed to economic segregation in many ways for years. Government policies to counteract this aren't social meddling to any greater degree.
Again, I'm trying to abstract this conversation and not talk about Cary/Durham/Raleigh per se. My point is that it isn't "masking the problem." It's that the problems associated with poverty grow exponentially as poverty grows linearly.
Achieving economic balance isn't masking problems. It's the only way to solve some of them.
But, my friend, I accept we'll likely agree to disagree on this one!
We do not totally disagree. The government has made many errors in the past. One of your points happened in MA, where I lived. They mandated multiple acres per property and a minimum 2500 sq ft house. That was insane. However, 2 wrongs do not make a right. If there is a problem in a city, fix the problem in the city. I am absolutely against forcing schooling or population diversification by the government. And let's be real. When the government says they are economically balancing the school population, they are really saying they are equaling out the race numbers. The economic label is just to make everyone feel good about what they are doing. Our local government should not be "Big Brother".
I don't think anyone has argued that Cary is only for the rich
Are you kidding? That is what everyone keeps trying to drive home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneezecake
would you at least agree that there are far fewer options for affordable housing in Cary than there are in almost any other city/town in the triangle area, save maybe for Chapel Hill? Whatever the reason, I think that is the one inescapable truth here, for better or worse.
Yes, I agree that Cary is more expensive than most surrounding towns for ownership. I also do not see a problem with that. Not every town needs to be the same price.
Apartments are just as cheap or cheaper in Cary than surrounding towns. My son is paying $100-$200 less than the same apartment in other towns.
Are you kidding? That is what everyone keeps trying to drive home.
.
Not from what I've seen - I've seen arguments made that Cary is:
-Elitist
-Exclusionary
-Bland
-Suburban
-Boring
But I didn't see anyone say it's only for the rich....and even if they did, I'm not speaking on behalf of everyone, I'm speaking on behalf of myself and in the interest of trying my best to make sure that info that appears on this site is as objective as is plausible.
And the above are all opinions - and there are plenty of opinions on the other side that it is great.
Either way, my point here is that for as much as things are subjective on this topic, and most things are, the few things that we can keep OBJECTIVE should be done so - Cary is one of the least affordable places to live, when considered as a town/city, in the entire triangle.
Can you point me to this "FACTUAL EVIDENCE" that is undeniable?
Something that actually does an apples-to-apples type comparison between homes in Wake County - say homes in good subdivisions from the 1990s, that have like-ranked good schools, similar commutes, etc.
My experience recently helping a coworker look for a home in Wake County convenient to RTP (which basically means Cary or North Raleigh) doesn't really show that Cary is any more expensive than N. Raleigh.
Can you point me to this "FACTUAL EVIDENCE" that is undeniable?
Something that actually does an apples-to-apples type comparison between homes in Wake County - say homes in good subdivisions from the 1990s, that have like-ranked good schools, similar commutes, etc.
My experience recently helping a coworker look for a home in Wake County convenient to RTP (which basically means Cary or North Raleigh) doesn't really show that Cary is any more expensive than N. Raleigh.
I own a home in both locations and I would say N. Raleigh is more expensive at least in my price ranges. It gets a little cheaper the further East you move but from ITB and North I say it's more expensive
I don't believe this is true as one of the reasons I commonly hear that residents love Cary is the Park system. There are a multitude of people who like having bike lanes and being close to Bond park among others. Some people also just like the golf in Preston, the swim clubs at Lochmere, or the symphony at Regency.
Okay, first he said it was undiverse ("white bread heaven"), then it was lots of vinyl houses (vinyl really is pretty rare in West Cary which I believe is the part he hates), now no nature only tan strip malls. Good grief, I spent two years living in Cary and my kids and I lived at the Town of Cary parks. They are unbelievable. Why do people who know nothing about Cary comment?
At the risk of dragging this thread any further...
.....
This conversation would be much more fun over beers. Tell me when and where, I'm buying!
Now we're making real progress!
Talk to you soon.
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That is what everyone keeps trying to drive home.
That Poster Knows Nothing about Cary
