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I just don't think the government should have anything to do with religion. If someone in their church or synagogue or mosque or temple or whatever wants to pray or even initiate their own sort of Prayer Day, by all means. But to have this national holiday, even if it doesn't inherently force anyone to pray one way or the other, I think is kind of ridiculous.
it is nice to have thoughts. we all have them.
Mark Twain pointed out that we each "write a 100,000 word volume" each day and that we wouldnt want any of them read....
The question here isnt one of what we "think" but what the constitution allows and disallows.
There simply is no evidence that the intention of the first Amendment was to block government from generally promoting faith.
Prayer is religious.
Otherwise, what would you pray for/to? Yourself?
Here's the Merriam-Webster definition of prayer:
Prayer - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Date: 14th century
1 a (1) : an address (as a petition) to God or a god in word or thought <said a prayer for the success of the voyage> (2) : a set order of words used in praying b : an earnest request or wish
2 : the act or practice of praying to God or a god <kneeling in prayer>
3 : a religious service consisting chiefly of prayers —often used in plural
4 : something prayed for
5 : a slight chance <haven't got a prayer>
In the number 1 definition the words, or a god, appear and this decision was aimed at Christian prayer. I see that it is ok to take the right away from all no matter whether Christian or not. Maybe you need to edit your definitions.
well we agree on that. but even if it was a law, which it likely isnt, i still dont have a problem with it.
Would you have a problem if it were a national day to promote and celebrate atheism? And the president called on all people to contemplate whether God really exists?
And it will be interesting to see what the SCOTUS does, since, as you've pointed out, it's not a law.
Yes, it is not the place of OUR government to make such rules promoting any religious acts, ie prayer. It's not a matter of you if you don't want to, you don't have to. That is a childish and ignorant remark. If you think it's "regressive" to uphold the Constitution, then allow me to show you the border.
Go read the first amendment, and the letters and documents left by the Founding Fathers.
Good for Wisconsin!
I wonder if this ruling applies to the national day of prayer that Obama attended with Muslims last spring when he failed to go with the Christians. Somehow I failed to see that one mentioned in this decision.
I keep wondering why atheists and other anti-Christians keep thinking that the 1st Amendment says that they can speak out against religion. Somehow they seem to be using that old double standard of the left.
Do you think there is a chance that this woman will be advanced far beyond where she is now? I don't think she will ever be on a Court of Appeals bench.
Ferd, the basic problem is this: Although we were founded by Christians, this nation cannot establish religion by law. Nor can it restrict the free exercise by law. It can be said the NDOP violates the establishment clause of the first amendment. Another poster has pointed out that NDOP is not a law. If this is so, then we'll see where the process takes this case. I believe it will go all the way to SCOTUS.
Jefferson got a lot of flak for the letter to the Danbury Baptists. So this issue is not a new one.
Maybe you can explain to me why the Muslim day of prayer that Obama attended last spring isn't included in this decision, other than the fact that the groups that brought the suit don't care if Muslims do things like this. I keep wondering when they will begin to include Muslims along with Christians for the way they want to pray.
Would you have a problem if it were a national day to promote and celebrate atheism? And the president called on all people to contemplate whether God really exists?
And it will be interesting to see what the SCOTUS does, since, as you've pointed out, it's not a law.
We always end up in this place don’t we?
if the majority of Americans elected a plurality of congress members who thought that was a wonderful thing then I would be on the outside looking in.
But back to my point. We aren’t talking about what we think. What we "feel". What we want.
We are talking about what the Constitution allows. And where this conversation is concerned there are 2 very important points.
1. The constitution does not demand that government avoid the promotion of faith in general.
2. There is no constitutional freedom from religion
if the majority of Americans elected a plurality of congress members who thought that was a wonderful thing then I would be on the outside looking in.
But back to my point. We aren’t talking about what we think. What we "feel". What we want.
We are talking about what the Constitution allows. And where this conversation is concerned there are 2 very important points.
1. The constitution does not demand that government avoid the promotion of faith in general.
2. There is no constitutional freedom from religion
The First Amendment reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting free exercise thereof; ..."
It is at the very least arguable that setting up a NDP is a law (your argument that it's a proclamation and not a law notwithstanding) respecting the establishment of religion. If it's not that, what the heck is it?
Maybe you can explain to me why the Muslim day of prayer that Obama attended last spring isn't included in this decision, other than the fact that the groups that brought the suit don't care if Muslims do things like this. I keep wondering when they will begin to include Muslims along with Christians for the way they want to pray.
Any link to a news item saying Obama went to a Muslim prayer service (not a blog, but news?) I couldn't find one. All I saw was that he didn't hold a formal event in honor of it.
Maybe you can explain to me why the Muslim day of prayer that Obama attended last spring isn't included in this decision, other than the fact that the groups that brought the suit don't care if Muslims do things like this. I keep wondering when they will begin to include Muslims along with Christians for the way they want to pray.
I don;tthink the NDOP requires you to go to a particular religious service, or pray in a designated way. Or did I miss something.
I beg your pardon! I am a conservative which means I work. Actually I own a thriving business. Don't imply I am a left winger looking for handouts.
I'm a liberal and own a thriving business. So?
I know a lot of conservatives on the welfare rolls as well....so there goes your theory.
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