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You folks do know that there are also many Christians that do support healthcare reform, or do you? For anyone to say Christians all think this way or that is ludicrous to the extreme.
Casper
I have to disagree with you Casper. I see the people that are the most vocal about being Christian also seem to be the people that claim the right to say who is Christian and who is not. I feel if the right wants to claim they are the only true Christians, true Americans or true patriots I have the right to lump them all together.
First of all Christians are warned to avoid those who hear/use God's word, but don't put it into practice in their life. These idlers contribute nothing to the church or to our spiritual growth.
But in response to your attempt to twist the Word to your own use:
Proverbs 6:6-11
6 Go to the ant, you sluggard;
consider its ways and be wise!
7 It has no commander,
no overseer or ruler,
8 yet it stores its provisions in summer
and gathers its food at harvest.
9 How long will you lie there, you sluggard?
When will you get up from your sleep?
10 A little sleep, a little slumber,
a little folding of the hands to rest- 11 and poverty will come on you like a bandit
and scarcity like an armed man. [a] Proverbs 10:4
4 Lazy hands make a man poor,
but diligent hands bring wealth. Proverbs 14:23
23 All hard work brings a profit,
but mere talk leads only to poverty.
You folks do know that there are also many Christians that do support healthcare reform, or do you? For anyone to say Christians all think this way or that is ludicrous to the extreme.
Casper
I have to disagree with you Casper. I see the people that are the most vocal about being Christian also seem to be the people that claim the right to say who is Christian and who is not. I feel if the right wants to claim they are the only true Christians, true Americans or true patriots I have the right to lump them all together.
Care to rethink that position?
How does this statement differentiate you from the loons that say "all Muslims are bad because of Bin Laden" ???
As a Christian, I agree with providing basic health care not coverage to those that can't afford it, which is what we do already. Nobody is denied care in our system today. Let me give you an example.
I chose not to pay $1500 a month for COBRA while I was looking for work. My son suffered 2nd degree burns on his hand while making Top Ramen. They were not bad, so we were keeping them clean and dressed. His school nurse saw his had and asked what had happened. She made an appointment for him at a local clinic. I took him to the clinic, they looked at him cleaned the burn gave us some suave and a follow-up visit. I offered to pay for the visits. The would only let me pay $10.00 for the visits and $5.00 for the suave to be put on once a day. They said that is all they could charge me because I did not have health insurance.
Most people do not realize what a scam health insurance is. Most people pay far, far, more in premiums, copays, prescriptions than they would each year if they paid out of pocket. This is why many young healthy people and families choose to pay out of pocket instead of pay a premium each month. Unless your employer pays 100% you more than likely are spending more on health insurance than you would on your health care costs.
Under the government plan those people that are smart enough to see through the scam will be punished if the choose to pay out of pocket. The government plan, like most services the government provides, is full of useless beaucracies, expanded government, pork, so much that it is just useless and a waste of tax payer money. If the government was really just wanting to provide coverage for those that don't have it the cost would be a small fraction of what their plan would cost and government would not be intruding once more into our lives.
You have to be kidding me, right?
Some hospitals turn the uninsured away and try to make homeless people pay a percentage of the bill before they agree to treat them knowing full well the person can't pay.
If you don't have insurance, often times you pay more for the same health care services as someone with insurance. Hospitals charge the uninsured more.
The hospital you went to was just really nice. A lot of hospitals gouge the uninsured. Oftentimes the uninsured pay twice, if not more, as those with insurance.
I don't know what you're referring to when you talk about "government plan." The bill being debated on in the Senate will fund subsidies into PRIVATE health insurance companies so people can have PRIVATE health insurance. It will not be government run. I don't know how many times I have to repeat this.
A cheaper option would be to have single-payer and not funnel money into for-profit companies that don't have our best interests at heart.
How do you respond to Deuteronomy 17 verses 7,8 & 11??
If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother,
but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be
^ I'd guess basic health care would be a 'need' For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, 'You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.'
^ So much for the "let them get an education and get out of poverty" argument. God says there will ALWAYS be poor people and that His people (whether Jews or Christians) must provide for them
Advocating a Theocracy?
If we could all force others to comply with our own personal beliefs of "right" and "wrong", wouldn't we be placing ourselves at the same level of God Himself? Seems pretty arrogant to me.
If God does exist, He will judge us, not other lowly humans. If God really, really, wanted us to behave in a particular manner, we would not be able to do otherwise.
I am not a religous person, but there is nothing in that verse that states we should give our money to thegoverment so they can distribute it as they see fit to help people. I would strongly argue "charity" is the key word they were shooting for. Churches, whether you like them or not, are undeniably charitable. Most donate through those churches to help provide for the less fortunate. I would assume that a church-goer would have more say in holding the church accountable for properly administering their charitable actions than a US citizen has in holding our government accountable in their "charitable" actions.
this is true.
I also find it interest that those who want use the Bible to push this agenda don't want to hear what else the Bible says about OTHER things like abortion, gay marriage, fornication, etc....
Charity in scripture means love. Love is not keeping your brother dependent. You are to make him strong so he can one day help someone else. Teach the man to fish. Stop giving him fish only.
A cheaper option would be to have single-payer and not funnel money into for-profit companies that don't have our best interests at heart.
Let's see - no competition, no reason to make services better because it is through government - this is the funnel - or more like the whirlpool made after flushing the toilet.
It would not be so bad if it was like the post office, which is simply an option - but the government doesn't put put taxes and fees on people for using UPS or FedEx. They will penalize companies and/or individuals for not going through them. Is that biblical?
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,025,682 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimw144
There is not a UHC bill in congress, yet you bring this up over and over. Please tell me what part of your Christian faith teaches you to deceive
The subject of the thread is "Christians against Universal Health Care (UHC). I am explaining my concerns about a UHC system not stating that a system is currently being deliberated in Congress. Instead of attacking me, maybe you could actually address the issues I'm raising. I've worked in government and I know that many government employees don't give a crap about the constituents they claim to serve; all they care about is their high salaries, benefits and pensions. Government isn't any better than private industry as there will be a bottom line in the form of rationing. Look, I would likely be one of those who would benefit under a UHC but I have seen a lot to where I don't blindly trust government like many of you guys seem to do.
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