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pro-choice and pro-life should RELOCATE! to towns, counties and states that support our views. I am pro-abortion (like China) but also anti-zoning and against taxes to fund schools for breeders. Seems like NV is probably the state for me but which town??????
When you say "born", when do you mean? Again, when the umbilical cord is cut, or some other point? This doesn't need to be this complicated.
Pro-abortion people do not want to be faced with the immoral reality of their stance Amaznjohn. Once you can stop fooling yourself that it's just a bunch of tissue that doesn't have any value until it exits the vaginal canal during birth, you finally understand you're condoning human murder.
I find it inconceivable a woman, the natural caretaker of human life from the beginning, could have such a view. These are women I would not want around my children.
"It's MY body so it's MY choice" is the argument for many. Well, sorry, that fetus is a separate human being and is NOT your body and you have no right to kill it." With this kind of argument, why should a Muslim man in Saudi Arabia be thought of as inhuman and a monster for killing his wife or daughter in an honor killing since he has the right according to his religion and culture of life and death over her? Why should we pay any attention to her? According to his culture, she doesn't own herself, he does. She has no rights. Women who use the "my body" argument are just as wrong as that man.
It's not a savory thought to confront the reality of what abortion is and pro-abortionists will fight tooth and nail to avoid the personal responsibility their viewpoint places on them and use every possible conceived argument to dehumanize the fetus to prevent themselves having to face that they condone murder.
Why was Scott Peterson for instance charged with the murder - and convicted and sentenced to death - of his son who was unborn if his unborn son wasn't a human life of value like Laci's?
Some people revere *all* life--that should be respected.
For other people, Terry Schiavo or an embryo with a beating heart but limited brain activity is simply not in the same realm.
The hard reality and practicality of continuing and/or paying for such differing qualities of life is what will sometimes come into consideration.
I do not think I want the government telling me what I can and can't do as far as my physicality is concerned. This is one place where they don't belong.
I don't like the thought of abortion and certainly not one over a month past conception. It's not something to be taken lightly. However, there are valid reasons not the least of which is extreme distress, mental or physical. Those next day pills seem like a better option for emergency cases as long as not abused.
Here's where the issue stands with me: Women have had abortions since the beginning of time. In the 20th century, and today, the only two centuries I have lived through, we've had illegal and legal abortions.
I advocate for legal abortions because it may save a life--the mothers! Before the legalization of abortion, we had no safeguard for either. In the case of the Peterson baby, I believe it was near term. I haven't heard or read any reports of abortions at this stage of pregnancy. Furthermore, pregnancy is not easy to confirm until approximately 8-12 weeks. That is the ideal time for safe abortions and the fetus is not developed. It actually looks like a foreskin!
MoMark, you can call this murder--but I hope you don't eat any eggs!
Pro-abortion people do not want to be faced with the immoral reality of their stance Amaznjohn. Once you can stop fooling yourself that it's just a bunch of tissue that doesn't have any value until it exits the vaginal canal during birth, you finally understand you're condoning human murder.
I find it inconceivable a woman, the natural caretaker of human life from the beginning, could have such a view. These are women I would not want around my children.
"It's MY body so it's MY choice" is the argument for many. Well, sorry, that fetus is a separate human being and is NOT your body and you have no right to kill it." With this kind of argument, why should a Muslim man in Saudi Arabia be thought of as inhuman and a monster for killing his wife or daughter in an honor killing since he has the right according to his religion and culture of life and death over her? Why should we pay any attention to her? According to his culture, she doesn't own herself, he does. She has no rights. Women who use the "my body" argument are just as wrong as that man.
It's not a savory thought to confront the reality of what abortion is and pro-abortionists will fight tooth and nail to avoid the personal responsibility their viewpoint places on them and use every possible conceived argument to dehumanize the fetus to prevent themselves having to face that they condone murder.
Why was Scott Peterson for instance charged with the murder - and convicted and sentenced to death - of his son who was unborn if his unborn son wasn't a human life of value like Laci's?
I find your mixing of "apples and oranges" an interesting technique. To tie all "taking of life" into one bundle is to obscure the argument and it is a very important argument. There are some things that will always exist. Prostitution, abortion, graft, greed, poverty, corruption, vilification and hatred are chief among them.
If you really are against abortion, make birth control, sterilization, sexual education and information free and widely available. While there are people who have no sexual desire and can abstain freely, that is not the reality for the human race as a whole. By what right do you punish someone who is already devastated and hurting for the mistake they made? The unique biological function of a mother/fetus relationship puts the burden almost completely on the woman so that is why the decision is not yours to make (and should never be your choice to make-until you can do the same). It is not as simple and easy as you make it sound just to "not get pregnant". Adoption stories are heartwarming but there are also horror stories. Raising children is hard work and very expensive. My point is that this is not an easy question with an easy answer. We do not live in an ideal world and we cannot make all choices FOR other people. Abortion needs to stay legal and available and unless you are working for some program that helps to make the procedure rare and needless, it is cruel to simply stand in judgment and condemn.
The morality of such a devastating decision follows a woman for her lifetime. The guilt and shame can be overwhelming. It is never a decision made lightly or without consequences! You can bet your life that you know such women right now and so will your children. Again I say, you have no right to condemn them!
MoMark, you can call this murder--but I hope you don't eat any eggs!
I find it hard to believe YOU would throw out a comment like that? You're joking...right? I'll assume you are as to think otherwise wouldn't be worthy of my experience of you
I love eggs. Fortunately they are unfertilized in the packs I buy and I've never seen one hatch into a human
I have every right to condemn them. A woman who seeks an abortion for a fetus that does not immediately or in any way threaten her own life is a murderess. I condemn that and I damn well have the right to just as I would any murderer. And every human being has the right to condemn human murder.
You say: "The unique biological function of a mother/fetus relationship puts the burden almost completely on the woman so that is why the decision is not yours to make (and should never be your choice to make-until you can do the same)". Please, so the power over a human life is a woman's to decide? You justify the right of a woman to murder a human baby in the womb because of the biological function of a mother/fetus? That's a terrible moral stance to take.
This thread has already gone over legitimate reasons why in some extreme cases a woman must have an abortion, but you throw in: "Raising children is expensive and hard work".... what is that supposed to mean? Is that justification to murder a baby?
You will never convince me with such warped logic to accept the murder of a child...because it's "expensive"....because it's "hard work"... How terrible you could say such a thing.
Right that they should have guilt afterwards...so they should, and that should tell you that they recognize that they are guilty of murder. Yet you would excuse it because they live with this guilt for the rest of their lives... as if that's justification for empathy and sympathy for the choice they made.
Don't give me a variable morality lesson on human murder and why not understanding the guilt afterward would somehow justify the abortion already undertaken.
I tend to avoid this argument at all costs, but I will say one thing.
It's interesting that the pro-life people tend to be Republicans, who have no problem dropping bombs on innocent civilians in a country that didn't attack us on 9/11. Pro-war, anti-abortion. Ironic isn't it?
If I were faced with the question, I would choose to raise the child alone rather than see it aborted. I believe people should take responsibility for their actions, but it is not mine or the government's place to dictate morality. It's your body, your mind, your conscience, your decision.
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