USC student arrested in fatal stabbing of man breaking into car at Greek Row, police say
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It’s not illegal but if your argument is that you killed someone because you feared for your life, it’s very relevant if you put yourself in the danger situation by confronting a thief. Again I am talking about a legal argument. Confronting a thief is not the same as simply dressing in a provocative way.
No, it's not. Again CA does not have a "Duty to Retreat" law. Self-defense laws are not "Null and Void" if someone puts themself in that situation, people have a right to defend themselves.
If we expand your logic what you are saying is that once this guy confronts the thief, it doesn't matter if the thief sticks a gun to his head and starts to beat him to a pulp. The guy has no right to defend himself because he put himself in that situation.
It’s the difference between eating a sandwich and a bear attacks you because it smells good and he wants it, and walking up to a bear to try to feed it, and getting attacked.
It’s not illegal but if your argument is that you killed someone because you feared for your life, it’s very relevant if you put yourself in the danger situation by confronting a thief. Again I am talking about a legal argument.
You do not waive your right to self defense by confronting someone over a crime.
Now if the guy took off running and you chased him 2 blocks and stabbed him in the back then yeah, that's not self defense. You also can't just run up and start stabbing them (in most cases, if they were actively murdering people then it would be ok).
But if you catch someone breaking into something or assaulting some girl etc. and then they turn on you, then you still have a self defense option.
Now, in this specific case we don't have all the details yet around the final seconds of the encounter. We do know that the stabber did not chase the guy after the stabs.
It’s the difference between eating a sandwich and a bear attacks you because it smells good and he wants it, and walking up to a bear to try to feed it, and getting attacked.
I suppose believing that confronting car thieves is somehow analogous to offering hungry bears bologna sandwiches makes some sort of sense to you …. which is actually bat-chit-crazy talk, to be honest … but may partially explain why you’re always on the wrong side of every debate, doesn’t it?
Now, if you’re proposing that human criminals are akin to wild animals, that I might partially agree with, but I don’t believe that was the point you were trying to make.
But there are deeper connotations in your viewpoint that law abiding citizens shouldn’t be confronting criminals, which seems to be the only problem you see in this scenario. But I gotta tell ya, it is exactly this type of non-thinking that is leading us to the inevitable dystopian future, where criminals should enjoy protection from the society they are choosing to victimize, rather than the other way around.
A better way to look at this from the larger perspective is to ask yourself … should a law abiding citizen ignore, or look the other way, and choose not to get involved if a criminal was tugging and ripping a purse from a little old lady’s hands? Thats your view? Well, I couldn’t more strongly disagree. In my view, not only should he intervene, but he has a moral and civic obligation to step in. If someone were victimizing you, I would intervene on your behalf, and I don’t even like you
Of course I already know you’ll point out the difference between intervening in a crime on behalf of the little old lady, and intervening in a car burglary, while ignoring the larger and more obvious similarities in confronting a criminal in the process of committing a crime. But that’s actually the more salient point. Civic duty, moral obligations, and doing the right thing …. all of which seem to be the antithesis of liberal logic.
It also depends on the state. In NJ we have a “Duty to retreat” law, so confronting the thief would not fly for self defense. Guessing California is similar.
It has been over 6 years since I read their laws on self defense, since I needed to know as I was living there for awhile.
It was a 'duty to retreat'. They want you to hide in your bathroom and wait for the police....idiots. Police never show up in time when someone's breaking into your house, for example.
Anyway, it depends on where the student was when he saw someone breaking into his car, and if he grabbed the knife and then went down to confront - in CA, he's toast if that is what happened. They will say that he did not need to a) confront the thief (which just about everyone would want to do to get them away from their car) and b) bring a weapon with him to confront the thief.
They will say that he should have called the cops when he saw someone breaking into his car, as his life was NOT in immediate danger at that time.
Laws change based on circumstances, time and place. Like shooting looters and hanging horse thieves.
A practice that might ought to be revisited. Back in those good old days, there was a distinctly lower rate of recidivism among criminals choosing to take what didn’t belong to them. And it also served as a deterrent for those weighing the pros and cons of doing so.
The law on the books isn't a new one, however it appears killing a thief on the spot is what some, perhaps a significant, % of the people want to do.
The article didn't say if the frat guy's car was being broken into, it just said the thief was seen "breaking into cars." Frat guy with a knife is being held on a $2M bond for murder.
It has been over 6 years since I read their laws on self defense, since I needed to know as I was living there for awhile.
It was a 'duty to retreat'. They want you to hide in your bathroom and wait for the police....idiots. Police never show up in time when someone's breaking into your house, for example.
Anyway, it depends on where the student was when he saw someone breaking into his car, and if he grabbed the knife and then went down to confront - in CA, he's toast if that is what happened. They will say that he did not need to a) confront the thief (which just about everyone would want to do to get them away from their car) and b) bring a weapon with him to confront the thief.
They will say that he should have called the cops when he saw someone breaking into his car, as his life was NOT in immediate danger at that time.
That’s the backward world we live in now … a “duty to retreat” is an absurd concept. I certainly believe that we should totally reject the idea that a law enforcement officer, for example, has higher rights regarding self defense, compared to the common citizen.
It’s important to draw the distinction between “powers” entrusted to law enforcement officers, which are greater than those granted to the common citizens, and the “rights” possessed equally by all individuals relative to self defense. There should be zero differences in the right to use deadly force in a self defense situation, whether it be a police officer or a regular citizen, unless one can show why the police officer’s life should be considered more valuable?
With regard to this specific case being discussed, I haven’t delved into the details … so I’m speaking in general terms. But it seems that the prevailing view is that the person who confronted the criminal which ultimately resulted in the death of this criminal, is responsible for the outcome, because the event would not have occurred if he hadn’t confronted him.
But to embrace that conclusion, one must ignore the fact that it was the criminal’s choice to commit the burglary that led to the confrontation. There would have been no confrontation had the criminal not chosen to commit his criminal actions.
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