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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 202 39.61%
No 259 50.78%
Unsure 49 9.61%
Voters: 510. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-10-2022, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,817 posts, read 2,765,685 times
Reputation: 3388

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanSunset View Post
It seems Russia is targeting Ukraine’s energy infrastructure like I said they would if they want to escalate



https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/10/10/e...ntl/index.html

A few posters told me with a straight face Russia did not have this capability
A few posters told you these strikes are very expensive. Let's see if this is just a tantrum or a campaign.
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Old 10-10-2022, 11:08 AM
 
3,112 posts, read 948,760 times
Reputation: 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Ukraine doesn't want to march on Moscow but the point in that is so that Russia feels some of the pain and consequences of the war and that all the damage is not just in Ukraine.
IMO, unless you have the capability and will to crush your enemy, you don’t take it to their civilian infrastructure. Random terrorist attacks usually energize the civilian base against you. Look what happened to Chechnya after the 1999 Moscow apartment bombings. They’re now even fighting for Russia!

Ukraine’s best bet is to continue inflicting casualties on Russian military forces and pretending to be angels to the international community. That will galvanize not only international pressure on Putin but internal as well. As soon as they begin with the terrorist route, they will be beaten back to the stone ages
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Old 10-10-2022, 11:53 AM
bu2
 
24,267 posts, read 15,112,709 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
True...but I'm hearing there is speculation it might not take that long...say Feb/March. Russia is throwing untrained cannon fodder into one of the bloodiest front lines since WW2...they don't have adequate training, clothing or gear....and the arms they are providing may end up being pointed at the ones issuing it.
Its certainly possible. It could happen by the end of the year if they have another significant breakthrough in the north. But the odds are it will take the sanctions to weaken Russia's army and logistics enough so that Ukraine can drive them out. And that will take time.
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Old 10-10-2022, 11:56 AM
bu2
 
24,267 posts, read 15,112,709 times
Reputation: 13130
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Ukraine doesn't want to march on Moscow but the point in that is so that Russia feels some of the pain and consequences of the war and that all the damage is not just in Ukraine.
The money and resources need to be focused on more useful purposes. A few missiles at Moscow, with its excellent air defenses, isn't going to bring Putin down. Sending home body bags will be much more effective.

Putin is just further uniting Ukraine with his terror campaign.
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Old 10-10-2022, 11:57 AM
bu2
 
24,267 posts, read 15,112,709 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post
I'm pro Ukraine (or perhaps better termed, Anti Russian war), but that chart is likely as accurate as the stuff coming out of the Kremlin.

Keep an eye on the amount of real estate going either way. Yes I know it is accurate only after the fact, but beware of buying propaganda of the side you prefer.

Russia has been "Nearing complete collapse" since May and it still has not happened.

Life is not an UPTV movie. Sometimes bad people like Putin win. (Yes I am hoping not)
No, but they have lost about half the Ukrainian territory they held at their high tide in late March.
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Old 10-10-2022, 12:01 PM
 
4,457 posts, read 5,357,133 times
Reputation: 2967
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanSunset View Post
IMO, unless you have the capability and will to crush your enemy, you don’t take it to their civilian infrastructure. Random terrorist attacks usually energize the civilian base against you. Look what happened to Chechnya after the 1999 Moscow apartment bombings. They’re now even fighting for Russia!

Ukraine’s best bet is to continue inflicting casualties on Russian military forces and pretending to be angels to the international community. That will galvanize not only international pressure on Putin but internal as well. As soon as they begin with the terrorist route, they will be beaten back to the stone ages
If not for the fact that Russian civilians died and the fact that this was a terrorist act, it would be funny for one reason: other than heavy trucks, vehicle traffic (road and rail) resumed in less than 24 hours.

Furthermore (and this isn't at you, but just want to mention it), if the Ukrainians were indeed winning the war as some on this thread have said they are "now," why would the Ukrainian side even have to bother with the idea of striking a non-military bridge in Crimea, given the fighting is happening elsewhere? I mean, the Ukrainians allegedly forced Russian troops to retreat, but what the former have done is to take a few villages back - which must be viewed in the context of the latter having liberated and now annexed and administratively taken over entire regions.

It is also important to note that from the start, the Russian military presence was smaller than the Ukrainian one. Yes, that's correct; there have been fewer Russian troops on the ground than Ukrainian troops. But Russian forces have killed far more Ukrainian forces than the other way around.

Why, then, the pivot towards an attack on a bridge?

Surely, a winning side doesn't resort to attacking civilian targets if it's clearly and unmistakably winning at the battlefront, does it?

Unless the so-called "winning side" - Ukraine - isn't actually winning..........
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Old 10-10-2022, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Durham NC
5,326 posts, read 3,892,457 times
Reputation: 3820
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanSunset View Post
It seems Russia is targeting Ukraine’s energy infrastructure like I said they would if they want to escalate



https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/10/10/e...ntl/index.html

A few posters told me with a straight face Russia did not have this capability

Well at least the missile defense system has worked like a charm. Time for NATO to cut Ukraine loose and sit down with Russia and end this before it becomes more than a regional conflict.
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Old 10-10-2022, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Way up high
22,491 posts, read 29,719,305 times
Reputation: 31797
Guys-this is going to end very badly for this planet. I pray it doesn't go any further. I don't think you guys understand how quickly this can turn into WW3
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Old 10-10-2022, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Durham NC
5,326 posts, read 3,892,457 times
Reputation: 3820
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
No, but they have lost about half the Ukrainian territory they held at their high tide in late March.

Ukraine paid a heavy cost for that land. From a fortune cookie. Better to have men and no land than land and no men.
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Old 10-10-2022, 12:06 PM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
17,063 posts, read 12,694,318 times
Reputation: 8955
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
No, but they have lost about half the Ukrainian territory they held at their high tide in late March.
And see me not complaining about it. My point is I am taking that chart with a giant grain of salt.
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