Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yes, I agree. Any state or nation that is okay with making FREEDOM contingent on a vaccine should be ashamed. Such a place is not a 'democracy' or 'republic' or free country. It is an authoritarian biosecurity state. People should stop pretending they are getting their 'freedoms' back. If they were taken, and are being given back like crumbs from the masters table, they are not freedoms. They are conditional privileges that will be taken back at a moment's notice.
That’s all lovely in theory.
In reality, if nothing had been put in place to mitigate this virus spread and we had thousands of people dying and in hospital, people would be yelling and screaming about the government not doing anything in the face of a public health crisis.
You paint a picture that seems black and white, all protestors are loser criminals. Seems there’s pieces missing. I can’t believe all Australians are either one extreme or the other.
No you’re right, they aren’t. And there’s no doubt people with legitimate grievance that deserve to be heard.
In case of the recent protests in Melbourne though, those people have been overrun by agitator thugs. They aren’t the people harassing fellow citizens and peeing on hallowed war memorials.
There are plenty of peaceful demonstrations going on in other parts of the country.
Freedoms won't return upon vaccination, or any other physical act undertaken by individuals. Neither is this limited to Australia or another nation or party. There is no "good behavior" or even "good government" that would restore freedoms.
The world has by and large decided that "saving lives" is paramount, essentially at any cost. That cost could be economic, philosophical, ethical, political, or whatever else. If "saving lives" means an abridgment of freedoms, then evidently, the plurality of voters around the world are OK with this. I have yet to see any nation or significant broad-based grouping of citizens, use the political process to stop the mask-madness or the lockdown-madness. And a bunch of vigilantes marching with signposts, will only irritate the otherwise neutral middle. We need a political solution. But there's no political will. Anywhere.
We're doomed to get precisely the world that we want. Enjoy.
While I don’t necessarily agree with you, thanks for your reasoned point of view. Food for thought indeed.
And you’re right about the vigilantes turning off the middle. Anyone who wants to be heard or change the system would be best off distancing themselves from that nonsense.
There are some medical workers (union) and others suing Gladys and the health officers in court over the vaccine mandates in some workplaces. That I have respect for, arguing your case in court should be encouraged and it keeps the government to account, at least makes them have to defend their actions openly.
You people are bat crap crazy. Going unvaccinated is killing people. Last I heard, not killing people is the law of the land most everywhere. In the US, I have the unalienable right to LIFE. That means you can not kill me through action or inaction. Get your damn shot and shut up.
You people are bat crap crazy. Going unvaccinated is killing people. Last I heard, not killing people is the law of the land most everywhere. In the US, I have the unalienable right to LIFE. That means you can not kill me through action or inaction. Get your damn shot and shut up.
In reality, if nothing had been put in place to mitigate this virus spread and we had thousands of people dying and in hospital, people would be yelling and screaming about the government not doing anything in the face of a public health crisis.
This is unfortunately only too true, and it is the ultimate reason why democracies are imposing lockdowns on themselves.
In my fantasy world, life would be treated as in the closing song in "The Life of Brian". The same thesis would apply to nuclear power plants, to asbestos and lead, to seat belts and to building codes and so on. This of course plainly isn't going to happen. Thus the "fantasy". And knowing this, governments everywhere, or nearly everywhere, are only too quick to err on the proverbial side of caution. Large majorities of citizens seems to be OK with this, however grudgingly. Which brings us to...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchoc
...In the US, I have the unalienable right to LIFE. That means you can not kill me through action or inaction. ...
I wouldn't take too kindly to ditchoc (or anyone else) intentionally trying to kill me. But if he (or anyone else) does risibly stupid things, with potentially deadly consequences, then whoever his choices happen to disappointment (and resoundingly they do), I don't view it as my inalienable "right" to thwart him. My right to life is not absolute, but instead is contingent on the very real and very uncertain caprices of nature, and of the creatures who are part of nature. To live in a society, means among other things that we agree not to intentionally harm each other. But it does not mean that we have a mutual burden to be our brothers' keepers. We are not, simply put, a platoon of soldiers who swore an oath to leave no comrade behind. We are ultimately individuals who have individual aims.
I love how conservatives suddenly like protests and decry police brutality when it's protests for something they agree with.
Protests have always been fine, they are an expression of free speech, to address the grievances against the government. Law enforcement is also approved of, since they enforce our laws and keep civil order. But violence protests and police brutality are always wrong and never approved up. So what the heck are you smoking??
They are the fascist loving left. Just watch that Democrat attack ad against DeSantis, they make him out to be "evil" because he refuses to act like a dictator and tells people they have the freedom and self determination to decide if they want to be vaccinated, wear a mask, lock themselves down etc...
To the dems, freedom is evil, fascist dictatorships are good. They are insane.
Wear a mask, it filters out the virus. Get the vaccine so you won't catch COVID. And then they freak out if they see an unmasked, unvaccinated person, claiming they will infect and kill them, regardless whether the unmasked person has a natural immunity or not, and is six feet away from them. Meanwhile in Australia, 95% of the people hospitalized have been vaccinated already
Last edited by Wapasha; 09-30-2021 at 04:33 PM..
Reason: typo
They are the fascist loving left. Just watch that Democrat attack ad against DeSantis, the make him out to be "evil" because he refuses to act like a dictator and tells people they have the freedom and self determination to decide if they want to be vaccinated, wear a mask, lock themselves down etc...
To the dems, freedom is evil, fascist dictatorships are good. They are insane.
Wear a mask, it filters out the virus. Get the vaccine so you won't catch COVID. And then they freak out if they see an unmasked, unvaccinated person, claiming they will infect and kill them, regardless whether the unmasked person has a natural immunity or not, and is six feet away from them. Meanwhile in Australia, 95% of the people hospitalized have been vaccinated already
No, you are absolutely wrong about that. Absolutely and categorically wrong.
I live in Australia now and now the public pools are open where I live and plenty of people swimming now.. I can also exercise with one other person in public. It is not all gloom and doom.
I dunno if that was sarcasm, but the limitations put on you sound awful. 1.5 years of this.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yes, I agree. Any state or nation that is okay with making FREEDOM contingent on a vaccine should be ashamed. Such a place is not a 'democracy' or 'republic' or free country. It is an authoritarian biosecurity state. People should stop pretending they are getting their 'freedoms' back. If they were taken, and are being given back like crumbs from the masters table, they are not freedoms. They are conditional privileges that will be taken back at a moment's notice.
