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Republicans are not educators but in Arizona they control education. They control what state standards are through the board of education, the budgets for K-12 and the funding going towards universities (a key reason that universities in AZ have seen 200% increases in tuition over the last 12 years.) So they may not be the educators but they are the watchmen.
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Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64
He's pointing out Arizona specifically.
Have you heard about AZs abysmal education system?
The Superintendent is a tea party candidate who ran on the single issue of the evil Common Core, is being attempted to be recalled, is suing the board of education who is also suing her and is getting into slap fights with the board of directors (literally).
She's not a liberal and she is Superintendent of Public Education for the State of Arizona. Our genius voters elected a stained glass shop owner to run a public education system because
1. She's a Republican
2. She opposes Common Core.
3. Well, that's it really. She ran against a qualified ******* who lost on that basis.
Yep that is how it is in Arizona. This Tea Party anti-common core one issue candidate ended up butting heads with the governor over who can hire/fire people from the education department. I believe this happened within three/four months of being sworn into office. I knew the writting on the wall when she was a candidate. I voted for the "*******" because I knew that she had no plan to improve if her removal of common core was to actually happen. It was just garden variety conservatism where you remove a program you don't like but offer no solution to the real problem. I believe this is often called treating the symptom, not the illness.
Another thing with Arizona is the state government turned their back on school funding and was actually sued by the districts and LOST. A penny sales tax that would fund the schools keep getting fought because of taxes. The current governor we had fought the settlement when he was working as the state treasurer because "the state don't have the money" And about the taxes, several districts (including the one I work for) actually are trying get an override to add taxes to keep the schools good because of the budget shortfalls coming in from the state who funnels the money to the districts. Some people are saying vote no just on the tax basis (to cement a previous point on the issue of people not wanting to pay taxes regardless of where it goes towards.)
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Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Most are. The NAEP proficiency scores don't lie.
This is a very good example of what I see in even supposedly "good" public school districts, time after time...
Spoiler
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Originally Posted by InformedConsent
How do you know that?
A lot of people think that their public schools are excellent, and a lot of school districts LOVE to foster and encourage that perception, even when it's not true.
I spent the better part of a year in the not too distant past educating my local community and our school district on the fact that one cannot make that assumption.
I live in a town in which the percentage of college graduates is quite high. Consequently, the income levels and housing prices are also quite high. Our town's public high school brags that 94% of their graduates continue on to college. Sounds good so far, right?
Well... a newspaper publisher local to a different suburban area than the one in which I live threw a monkey wrench into that idyllic blissfully unaware mindset when they got ahold of ACT's College Readiness Benchmarks and compared suburban Chicago public school district students' ACT scores with ACT's own College Readiness Benchmarks.
(In Illinois, all 11th grade students take the ACT as part of the required NCLB testing, which is a GOOD thing as that way the state CANNOT misrepresent the quality of our public high schools by making the state test easier or instituting lower passing scores as explained here: Lake Wobegon, U.S.A. -- where all the children are above average)
What that data showed was that while our local public high school loved to brag that 94% of their graduates continued on to college, only 27% of them were adequately prepared to take first year college-level courses according to the ACT Benchmarks. Furthermore, that 27% figure was significantly below that of comparable area communities and even that of communities in which housing prices were significantly lower.
I brought the data to our community's attention by publicly speaking out at school committee and board meetings which are covered by local suburban press.
The stunner: NO ONE in the community had EVER looked at that data even though it is easily accessible from ACT. Not school admin. Not the school board. Not students' parents. No one.
Naturally all the usual stages followed... shock, anger, resistance, and finally... grudging acceptance. The school admin and school board would have done nothing about it. Parents and community members shocked and angered at learning the truth have put pressure on the school to make improvements. School admin and the school board have subsequently been analyzing the situation and are making extremely slow progress in improving academic outcomes. Our high school's ACT College Readiness percentage is better but not anywhere near where it should be given the aspirations of our graduating students.
For those interested in exactly what the ACT College Readiness Benchmark scores are (they're SURPRISINGLY low, hovering close to the national average scores ): ACT College Readiness Benchmarks | ACT
Now, compare those low benchmark score minimums to the percentage of Chicago suburban school districts (some quite wealthy) that have prepared their students well enough to meet all 4 benchmark minimums (last column in chart): https://prev.dailyherald.com/packages/2007/schoollfinance/chapter10.htm
Lesson learned... DON'T automatically assume a school district's "excellent" reputation is deserved, or that higher-priced homes equals better public schools.
That sounds like the whole how things are taught rather than what. If we teach kids for tests, they wont exactly learn things. That is the problem I have with standardized testing, it don't help challenge students. College challenges students. If the student isn't challenged, they are in for a wake-up call. I was.
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Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Fine by me if we don't have to pay taxes to the public school districts, or give students vouchers for their per pupil spending per year to use at whichever school they want. If it's parents' responsibility, they should have control of the the means to make better educational choices for their children. No more trapping kids in crappy public schools. /puke
And if they don't do they FOAD? As I mentioned, Arizona is high on charter schools but the problem is there just isn't enough seats to fully take all the students out of "crappy public schools." Some are trapped if there aren't enough vouchers to go around (and there aren't.)
Wow, it's disheartening to see such vitriol from the boomer generation. Say what you will but 1.) you guys created us, literally and culturally, and 2.) stupidity is relative. My generation is more highly educated than yours AND we're quicker to learn anything computer-related.
I teach software to a broad age range of employees and the middle aged/older folks always make me want to rip my hair out because I have to waste so much time teaching them simple, basic functions like how to copy and paste text or open a new tab in a browser.
When I waited tables, and then airline customer service, the quickest to complain about minor, unforeseeable issues were the boomers. Millennials are much better still taking things in stride.
Take a look in the mirror, you guys are no picnic yourself. And you left a huge mess behind too.
Well, your parents created you and we created your parents. Except for me I had my kids late so I'm guilty as charged but one of my kids is on the right path. Still working on the other one.
No you're not more educated than the generations before you. Unfortunately, what passes for an education these days wouldn't pass for one years ago. You just have more pieces of paper. Unfortunately, I'd say you're less educated than my generation.
Being a user of technology isn't anything to write home about. The generation that developed the technology is the one I'd say had the intelligence. While I'll admit to not remembering steps to do things in canned programs, I can and have rewritten software to do what I wanted it to do and then called the company and explained to them how I did what they said the software couldn't do. I grew up writing my own programs for anything I wanted. Growing up using someone elses programs doesn't give you bragging rights. Millenials are users of technology and, yes, you're good at it. Unfortunately, that's not enough. I'd rather be able to think and not know the steps to copy and paste than be able to follow steps but not think.
I was absolutely floored when I went back to grad school for my teacher certs at how easy college had become and the inability of my fellow students. So much had changed in the 20 years between getting my bachelor's degree and my second masters. I couldn't believe how EASY college had become and how much younger students struggled in spite of it being a piece of cake. Theoretically, I should have had a harder time being older but I didn't. At first I thought it was the major change but then I took classes like "Non-euclidian geometry" and saw the same thing. It was easy peasy for me but the younger kids struggled. The class asked you to think. The only place I saw the reverse was in classes like my tech class where they knew the short cuts to get things done better than the older students. Knowing short cuts isn't intelligence. It's rote memorization. If you're any kind of teacher you know that it takes repetition to learn rote steps so there's no need to pull your hair out over older students learning to USE technology. Rote learning comes with practice and that is an example of rote learning. There's no real thought to it. Just memorizing the steps. Don't mistake that for intelligence because it isn't.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 10-18-2015 at 03:18 PM..
Older folks are upset that Millenials are lagging behind their international peers? I can't remember a time when our young were ahead of our international peers.
Are you ridiculously claiming that no one in AZ votes D? You don't really expect anyone to believe that, do you?
What's so great about Common Core? This article explains what works, and what doesn't, and why we've had 5 decades of what doesn't work:
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"The other key factor in preserving academic quality was the practice of grouping students by ability in as many subjects as possible. The contrast was stark: schools that had "severely declining test scores" had "moved determinedly toward heterogeneous grouping" (that is, mixed students of differing ability levels in the same classes), while the "schools who have maintained good SAT scores" tended "to prefer homogeneous grouping."
If attaining educational excellence is this simple, why have these high-quality schools become so rare? The answer lies in the cultural ferment of the 1960s.
THE INCUBUS OF THE SIXTIES
In every conceivable fashion the reigning ethos of those times was hostile to excellence in education. Individual achievement fell under intense suspicion, as did attempts to maintain standards. Discriminating among students on the basis of ability or performance was branded "elitist." Educational gurus of the day called for essentially nonacademic schools, whose main purpose would be to build habits of social cooperation and equality rather than to train the mind."
You can still find that same failed mentality in the majority of our public school educators and administrators, today: Individual achievement is still under under intense suspicion. Discriminating among students on the basis of ability or performance is branded "elitist." Educational gurus still call for essentially nonacademic schools, whose main purpose is to build habits of social cooperation and equality rather than to train the mind.
Why is that?
This sounds not like the problem of common core but the removal of tracking from schools. But cool story bro...
In this thread, conservatives complain about a young, diverse generation. In another thread, conservatives brag that their presidential candidates are young and diverse.
In this thread, conservatives complain about a young, diverse generation. In another thread, conservatives brag that their presidential candidates are young and diverse.
Can you say cognitive disconnect?
Whats new? The fact that anybody would go out to denigrate a generation simply on the basis of when they were born, technically qualifies for being among the most stupid.
Are you ridiculously claiming that no one in AZ votes D? You don't really expect anyone to believe that, do you?
Didn't even allude to that.
I made no arguments in favor of Common Core
Nice report though
We have a loud and proud Tea Party here in AZ. It's largely comprised of Conservatives who have fled the cold weather for warmer pastures. They are generally elderly and are easy to rile up on single issues like this.
The other candidate was one of the most qualified candidates we've had run for office in a LONG time, but he still lost. I'd wager that it has to do with the D next to his name. A large number of people vote R regardless of candidate, many Republicans are openly coming out against Diane Douglas for her 'Large Kindergartner' way of handling herself.
We have a loud and proud Tea Party here in AZ. It's largely comprised of Conservatives who have fled the cold weather for warmer pastures. They are generally elderly and are easy to rile up on single issues like this.
The other candidate was one of the most qualified candidates we've had run for office in a LONG time, but he still lost. I'd wager that it has to do with the D next to his name. A large number of people vote R regardless of candidate, many Republicans are openly coming out against Diane Douglas for her 'Large Kindergartner' way of handling herself.
AZ is only #47. Why not go after the other 4 states worse than AZ ?
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And about the taxes, several districts (including the one I work for) actually are trying get an override to add taxes to keep the schools good because of the budget shortfalls coming in from the state who funnels the money to the districts. Some people are saying vote no just on the tax basis (to cement a previous point on the issue of people not wanting to pay taxes regardless of where it goes towards.)
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