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Old 07-15-2013, 12:33 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,299,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SourD View Post
Again, it doesn't give you ANY right to attack someone for it. You know this too so I have no idea what you are even trying to argue. If you want to live in an atmosphere like that, move to the hood where it is perfectly acceptable to use deadly force just because someone simply "disrespected" you. That's exactly what you are acting like, someone who thinks like that.
It's not so black and white. If Zimmerman was a convicted child molester and someone he was following had turned the tables and beat the snot out of him he would likely be commended for what he did.

Should have Martin simply went home? Yes, but so should have Zimmerman. I have no problem with people keeping theirs eye open about what is going on in their neighborhood but people also have a right to walk home without getting harassed.
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:35 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,299,963 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Why shouldn't he follow Martin?
Because he wasn't doing anything wrong.

Quote:
Martin was not carrying any visible weapon. He's at a distance away walking while Zimmerman was driving.

If he got closer, he might be able to get a better description for the police.
For what? Guilty of walking home from the store?
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:38 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,279,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
It's not so black and white. If Zimmerman was a convicted child molester and someone he was following had turned the tables and beat the snot out of him he would likely be commended for what he did.

Should have Martin simply went home? Yes, but so should have Zimmerman. I have no problem with people keeping theirs eye open about what is going on in their neighborhood but people also have a right to walk home without getting harassed.
Here's the thing though. Even if we give the benefit of the doubt to TM we still have to deal with the fact that the neighbors saw TM on top of GZ and told him to stop fighting. He chose not to and continued to punch GZ. So even if we assume that this was simply self defense that slipped into assault, assault is still illegal.
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:46 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,299,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
Here's the thing though. Even if we give the benefit of the doubt to TM we still have to deal with the fact that the neighbors saw TM on top of GZ and told him to stop fighting. He chose not to and continued to punch GZ. So even if we assume that this was simply self defense that slipped into assault, assault is still illegal.
I have been clear in my belief that the prosecutor way overstepped their authority in charging Zimmerman with murder.

Given what we know I can not condemn Zimmerman for his actions after Martin started beating him but I will for his actions up to that point.

While this clearly was not murder, Zimmerman does hold some blame for his actions leading up to the shooting.

Leave people alone not doing anything wrong.
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,579,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I have been clear in my belief that the prosecutor way overstepped their authority in charging Zimmerman with murder.

Given what we know I can not condemn Zimmerman for his actions after Martin started beating him but I will for his actions up to that point.

While this clearly was not murder, Zimmerman does hold some blame for his actions leading up to the shooting.

Leave people alone not doing anything wrong.
Then charge him with what he did. Charge him with following TM. That's all he did up to the point of the assault. While I agree that this could have been avoided by Zimmerman not following him that's kind of like saying that I could have avoided being in an accident that was someone else's fault if I'd just stayed home that day. I don't think Zimmerman expected this to escalate to violence the way it did. That was TM's decision.

Maybe he was being an over zealous neighborhood watchman but so what? What harm was done? Would it have hurt TM to simply walk home?
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:51 PM
 
16,545 posts, read 13,473,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
It's not so black and white. If Zimmerman was a convicted child molester and someone he was following had turned the tables and beat the snot out of him he would likely be commended for what he did.

Should have Martin simply went home? Yes, but so should have Zimmerman. I have no problem with people keeping theirs eye open about what is going on in their neighborhood but people also have a right to walk home without getting harassed.
Still irrelevant. Shoulda woulda coulda works both ways. What matters at the end of the day are the ILLEGAL actions one takes. Even if the person following was a convicted child molester, you STILL have no right attacking them for no apparent reason.
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,579,593 times
Reputation: 14693
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
It's not so black and white. If Zimmerman was a convicted child molester and someone he was following had turned the tables and beat the snot out of him he would likely be commended for what he did.

Should have Martin simply went home? Yes, but so should have Zimmerman. I have no problem with people keeping theirs eye open about what is going on in their neighborhood but people also have a right to walk home without getting harassed.

And the neighborhood watch has the right to watch the neighborhood without fear of being beaten.
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:58 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,299,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Then charge him with what he did. Charge him with following TM. That's all he did up to the point of the assault. While I agree that this could have been avoided by Zimmerman not following him that's kind of like saying that I could have avoided being in an accident that was someone else's fault if I'd just stayed home that day. I don't think Zimmerman expected this to escalate to violence the way it did. That was TM's decision.

Maybe he was being an over zealous neighborhood watchman but so what? What harm was done? Would it have hurt TM to simply walk home?
The harm is in the expanding belief of guilty until proven innocent.

Your analogy is flawed also in the fact that in the accident you did absolutely nothing wrong.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:01 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,299,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
And the neighborhood watch has the right to watch the neighborhood without fear of being beaten.
I'd have no problem if all he did was watch him as he walked by.
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,579,593 times
Reputation: 14693
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
The harm is in the expanding belief of guilty until proven innocent.

Your analogy is flawed also in the fact that in the accident you did absolutely nothing wrong.

Neither does a neighborhood watchman who follows someone they suspect may be up to something.
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