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There are so many ways that a city (and its residents) win from getting rid of cars...
+ Lower taxes (since the infrastructure does not need to be stretched across such a large landscape)
+ Less pollution
+ More wealth stays in the community (instead of being drained away to pay for "imported" oil)
+ Less need to maintain a military presence in foreign oil producing countries
+ People get to know their neighbors
+ As stated before, people save perhaps $8-10,000 per annum by ditching their cars
Every major city of the world has a strong mass transit system, and most of its people can live happily without cars. Charlotte is not there yet. Can it make it? And certainly the metro areas of CLT that spill over to SC are far behind
Those who say they "enjoy their cars" have not considered the many ways that "making car owners happy" destroys a community and its future. EXHIBIT A, is Detroit - called the Motor City. I was born there, saw what cars were doing, and got-the-hell-out as soon as I could. When I go back to visit family, I nearly weep for what it has become.
Video:
Got any documentation for the above?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic
You think?
It seems to me that you are not really paying much attention to the actual discussion going on here.
I am not really just making ad hominen attacks, or speaking some-one else's soundbites.
If you read carefully, you might find that many of us here on this thread, are actually supporting our arguments with facts and figures.
Why not try a little harder.
See above. You haven't provided anything except opinion pieces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic
Wow.
For me this comment resides somewhere out there are on the idiot fringe.
And is a little worrisome when I see the confidence with which it is expressed.
How does Burning you way through limited resource wealth, because you like the feeling of piloting an expensive vehicle make you, or anyone else, a better "American"?
I would have thought that patriotism would have included some concern for the future of the country, and what you leave behind for your children and your grandchildren.
Is being "an American" for you, being someone who is unmindful of the long term consequences of one's actions?
(Do you really think you are invincible, Mr. iNviNciBL3 ? Maybe you should consider changing your screen name to : iMbeCil3 ?)
I know that that sort of grandeous attitude is common amongst a certain fringe within the country. And their behavior abroad has inspired foreigners to speak of "Ugly Americans." I imagine you do not care who others think, and you believe it is your god-given right to act rude, boorish, and an aggressive towards those who do not share your "true American" attitudes.
It's Sad really. Many genuine patriots who want something better in the long term for their country have to be associated (in the minds of foreigners) with such blatently irresponsible attitudes.
My advice: Try growing up, and seeing what you are doing to the planet, and how the rest of the world views that, before it is too late. Americans could get away with behavior like that when they were On Top, but the country is now sliding fast, mainly because too many are "living for today" with no thought of long term consequences.
Those who do not like American Boors should speak out here, and condemn that mindset. It might help some to wake up.
Who died and made you God!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic
Yeah.
And the funny thing is...
They don't notice the lack of highways, because they have a good rail system,
with Buses for back-up.
That road system is not free to maintain BTW.
Chances are, major parts of it will fall into disrepair, if the economy continues to decline.
In some parts of the country, you can notice that disrepair already.
Living in an area accessible by rail is a good hedge
Right, and buses run on ??????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic
The statistic of $8000 -10,000 has been widely quoted as the cost of car ownership for the average American. Do you want me to find the source for that? If you are good at searching the web, you may find it more quickly than I can.
Stats, about 30-35 minutes in:
=====
+ 3 gallons per person per day x 365 = 1095 gallons / 42= 26 bbls pa
+ At $4 per gallon, that would be $4,400 per annum - just for gasoline !*
+ 25% of disposable income on cars, most expensive system in the world
(up to 40% for lower income people)
+ No.2 cost is autos, after housing
+ People cite gasoline costs of $200-1,000 per month
+ Bill Clinton spoke about future "resource wars"
For many: "Every single trip must be made BY THE CAR"
*On top of the gasoline cost, you have to add:
+ Finance and capital cost
+ Repairs, tires, lubs, etc
+ Insurance costs
+ Parking, and tolls
It adds up fast, so do you really Doubt the $8,000 - 10,000 ?
Well, for one, gas is about $3/gallon, not $4, which is 25% less right there. Not everyone pays for parking or tolls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic
Maybe it wasn't just the immigrants that caused that - though they may have been associated with the change.
I saw that in Detroit in the 1950s and 1960s. Then they called it "white flight", as the original residents moves to the suburbs. Whereas in NYC, they stayed and prospered. Part of the reason that people stay in NYC, was that neighborhoods were not "cut to shreads" by huge highway projects. Nice old walkable neighborhoods were left intact in NYC, with the subway connecting them. Same thing in London and Chicago. And all those mass transit cities prospered, while car-dependent Detroit died - or is on its way to dying.
Seeing how this worked over many years is one of the things which has made me a staunch critic of Car Only communities. You'd better hope it does not happen to yours !
Right, New York and Chicago have NO suburbs! Gimme a break!
That is because the minimum wage is $3.60 US but a 545 sq ft apartment costs about $4500 a month to rent. My guess is the majority that are earning that minimum wage live in abject poverty, they probably don't get anywhere close to having a spacious 5oo sq ft apartment.
I don't know where you get that.
We bought a 2BR flat here about a week ago, and it is rented out at HKD 8,000 = USD 1,000.
It is smaller than 500 sf, but it has a great location. From the door to standing in central might
require just 20-25 minutes using the nearby MTR station.
I will keep this as a back-up when I sell my more expensive flat... hopefully within the next 2-3 weeks.
Got any documentation for the above?
See above. You haven't provided anything except opinion pieces.
. . .
Well, for one, gas is about $3/gallon, not $4, which is 25% less right there. Not everyone pays for parking or tolls.
Read the articles - they are loaded with data.
So are the videos.
If you want to stay in ignorance, then do not bother.
If you want to educate yourself, you will need to do a little work.
Try typing "Andres Duany" into youtube, and watch a few of his talks.
He's very passionate, and has been a great leader for New Urbanism
The gasoline price depends on where you are. From what I have heard, you can find prices between $3-4 across the US. I wonder how long they will stay that low. Petrol is about twice that price across Europe, and that works well, restraining ill-disciplined motoring, and encouraging the use of public transport.
If American wants some respect in the world, rather than being seen as a mere bully with big weapons, it might be a good idea to get a grip on the wasteful use of fossil fuels.
I don't know where you get that.
We bought a 2BR flat here about a week ago, and it is rented out at HKD 8,000 = USD 1,000.
It is smaller than 500 sf, but it has a great location. From the door to standing in central might
require just 20-25 minutes using the nearby MTR station.
I will keep this as a back-up when I sell my more expensive flat... hopefully within the next 2-3 weeks.
Doh, pretty clever of you to propose an argument and then pretend to show the benefit's but actually doing the opposite.
Cars svck, and car owners have an expensive addiction.
(The headline was an intentionally provocative statement.)
It is time to demand better:
Walkable neighborhoods, and decent public transport
A smart new political agenda would be : CARS ARE LAST !
Get them out of your streets, and out of your lives. Save $8,000 - 10,000 per annum by not owning a car,
and invest that money in a decent property in a Walkable neighborhood.
Design neighborhoods with denser living, where cars are not needed.
Start building capital, and rebuilding the country. It is about time !
DISCUSS !
Have you been Butt Chugging Kool-Aid at the Teacher's Lounge again?
Read the articles - they are loaded with data.
So are the videos.
If you want to stay in ignorance, then do not bother.
If you want to educate yourself, you will need to do a little work.
Try typing "Andres Duany" into youtube, and watch a few of his talks.
He's very passionate, and has been a great leader for New Urbanism
The gasoline price depends on where you are. From what I have heard, you can find prices between $3-4 across the US. I wonder how long they will stay that low. Petrol is about twice that price across Europe, and that works well, restraining ill-disciplined motoring, and encouraging the use of public transport.
If American wants some respect in the world, rather than being seen as a mere bully with big weapons, it might be a good idea to get a grip on the wasteful use of fossil fuels.
Germany is an economy that is thriving even in what has been a horrific financial climate for most countries.
There was an interview with the Minister of Commerce, or some such title from Germany, and his version of why they are doing well is spot-on. He exclaimed everyone looks to china for inspiration. --CONSUME-CONSUME-CONSUME-CHEAP-CHEAP-CHEAP- He went on to say they(Germany) are not china and they had to concentrate on "smart" to survive. Cant get much simpler than that.
Our "system" is in its infancy relative to the rest of the world. The ideology that gratuitous, selfish, unnecessary hyper-consumption with no regard for anything else is clearly a huge failure. What is going to happen when the USA and their god and overseer-- worlds most evil superpower-- china, demands our resources for their people or calls in their loans because we have angered them?
I am constantly amazed that Amerabillies focus on stuff like gun rights or abortion when we are about to be consumed by the monster we created.
You missed my point - so eager are you to NOT CHANGE AT ALL.
The thing to realise is not that HK "has it better", but that things can be dramatically improved in the US, if you diagnose the challenges properly, and move towards the right solutions.
Sitting back, and saying: "things are great", when they clearly are not, will not help you improve matters around you. You have to take off the blinders and realise what is holding you back while other countries are progressing.
Do you deny that the US is in a mess economically? I think that much should be taken as given.
The US is not in a mess economically because folks are buying cars which was the premise of your post. You and your agenda 21 nonsense can stay out of the US that makes us much better off that's for sure.
America is getting better for the Non-Car Owner, but it still has a Long, long way to go in that particular area. The responses on this thread have so far made me think that progress in people's attitude is still less dramatic than I had hoped it was.
There is a reason why people have cars in America. Perhaps it slipped your twisted agenda 21 mind.
US-3.79 million square miles
Hong Kong-421 square miles
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