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Who wanted to go to war? It surely wasn't the South. It was the North.
And please don't go on a rant about Ft. Sumter, where no one died at all.
Look, 650,000 American soldiers died because the North refused to give up the south. Abraham Lincoln was the greatest tyrant this country has ever known. And he didn't care one bit for black people, and wanted to kick them out of the country.
And the northern states after the war wanted absolutely nothing to do with these newly freed blacks. Though they were fine keeping them in the southern states and giving them voting rights, because they knew the blacks would vote for them.
About 5,000 people died in over 100 years of lynchings. You can't even compare that with 650,000 killed in four years because of the despotic government under the radical Republicans.
Wow. This is the worst defense of the southern cause I've read in a long time. I can barely wait for chapter two.
It matters, because they believe that if they can get you to see what a meanie President Lincoln was(or at least how they see him)....well, maybe you won't be so tough on the poor, just wanting to keep our sovereignty against the evil northern aggressors Confederacy. It's their apologetics game. And game is over.
Yea...I know the game. They get mad if blacks being up the past or even say the word 'slavery.' Then, we're whining and should forget about the past.
But when its convenient, they want us to despise Lincoln and hate him based on 1860 attitudes. Then its ok to talk about the past.
I know the game. Southern white conservative Confederate apologists have a dozen tricks up their sleeves, and I'm aware of them all. I can sniff 'em out like a bloodhound.
Maybe to you. But a lot of good men died under that flag, and many werent any more racist than the northeners were. Most never owned a slave. It's a shame that neo nazi dipsh*ts used this symbol and ruined it.
And it still represents racism and treason.
Face it, the south lost their war over 150 years ago.
For ford's sake, let it go.
You don't see idiots in the US running around with the Union Jack.
And it still represents racism and treason.
Face it, the south lost their war over 150 years ago.
I can understand your position that the Civil War involved racism, but the states had the right to secede as agreed from the founding of the nation, so the treason charge is not valid. That 10th Amendment battle was indeed lost, but the issue was not settled as amply demonstrated by today's arguments over things such as same sex marriage and voter ID laws. The Civil War never ended and continues to this day between the sovereign states and the Federal Government. Thankfully it is being fought in the courts rather than on the battlefield.
Why are Southerners so obsessed with flying the "Stars & Bars" in the first place? You guys lost the Civil War, remember? The Confederate flag represents your failure.
Why are Southerners so obsessed with flying the "Stars & Bars" in the first place? You guys lost the Civil War, remember? The Confederate flag represents your failure.
The legacy of white supremacy, though, still lives on in the psyches of the confederate losers. To let go of their beloved flag would be to let go of them good ol'days. When the white man did what he wanted....cotton was king.....and the black man knew his place. Sovereign state rights are seen thru revisionist eyes. The Confederate States of America was for slave owner rights. They can twist it and turn it as much as they wish, but that duck is still quacking the same as it was in the late 1800's.
You mean, Lincoln wanted to kick the slaves out of the country instead of keeping 'em picking cotton? That rat bastard!
My point is, Lincoln's position wasn't exactly the benevolent emancipator that he is made to be.
As for slavery. Blacks would have been freed regardless. It was just a matter of time. Anyone who thinks there would still be slavery today if it hadn't been for the Civil War, has no concept of history. Brazil had about six times as many slaves as the United States, and slavery simply ended there, no war, and not even much debate.
Practically every country in the western hemisphere had slavery, how many wars were fought to free the slaves?
The question in my mind is, I understand that we wanted to end slavery. Slavery was immoral. But there are bad things going on all around the world today. Would you sacrifice 650,000 Americans to convert the middle-east to democracy? Should we sacrifice 650,000 lives to end the violence in Africa?
That is a big number, 650,000. I don't think you realize how large a number it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savoir Faire
Treasonous traitors deserve no pity.
Lincoln was one of the greatest US Presidents.
Look, all Americans are basically the descendants of traitors. America was created out of treason. Whether or not you agree with the southern cause for secession, they saw themselves as freedom fighters. They were searching for independence. They loved George Washington, and believed the spirit of Washington is what guided the southern cause.
If Lincoln was so great, why is he so great?
His emancipation proclamation didn't free any slaves in the northern states. He believed blacks were inferior to whites. He killed 650,000 Americans in a senseless war. He wanted to free the slaves then deport them out of the country.
The real truth is, Lincoln was basically the first American dictator. He basically did everything a dictator would do. He locked up nearly the entire legislature of Maryland because they were going to pass legislation he didn't agree with. He locked confederate sympathizers and journalists in prison, with no right to a trial, just for questioning his war. He created out of thin air money, and then spent it, all without permission of the Congress. He waged a war against his own country. Which the only definition of treason in the constitution, is for a person who makes war with his own country. He instituted a draft, that was so unpopular, that it caused riots that killed hundreds of people in New York City. He ignored the constitution at every turn. And for what purpose? Supposedly in the name of saving the union.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savoir Faire
Lincoln waged the Civil War to keep American from splitting in half.
How is that a bad thing?
What is a union? How can there be a union that is held together by force? A union held together by force is a contradiction of itself.
The United States of America, could also be written, the American Union. Because we were a union of states, not a single nation.
Even Alexander Hamilton talked about this dilemma at the ratification debates in New York....
Quote:
It has been observed, to coerce the states is one of the maddest projects that was ever devised. A failure of compliance will never be confined to a single state. This being the case, can we suppose it wise to hazard a civil war? Suppose Massachusetts, or any large state, should refuse, and Congress should attempt to compel them, would they not have influence to procure assistance, especially from those states which are in the same situation as themselves? What picture does this idea present to our view? A complying state at war with a non-complying state; Congress marching the troops of one state into the bosom of another; this state collecting auxiliaries, and forming, perhaps, a majority against its federal head. Here is a nation at war with itself. Can any reasonable man be well disposed towards a government which makes war and carnage the only means of supporting itself — a government that can exist only by the sword? Every such war must involve the innocent with the guilty. This single consideration should be sufficient to dispose every peaceable citizen against such a government.
But can we believe that one state will ever suffer itself to be used as an instrument of coercion? The thing is a dream; it is impossible.
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