Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Bottom line, Zimmerman did not have the right to kill him, regardless of Zimmerman's perceptions. You absolutely cannot control what other people think of you, period. Your scenario is like blaming a rape victim for her rape because of the clothes she wore. I think it's abundantly clear that Zimmerman has some pretty strong biases.
No. If Martin was acting suspicious, he was acting suspicious and it was a legitimate perception.
The Bottom Line is that you don't know what happened. Nor do I.
This is not necessarily like blaming a rape victim, because it is 100% possible that Martin was in fact threatening his safety or life. If that is the case, self defense is a real legal term that would say Martin was not a victim and Zimmerman is not guilty of a crime.
It is abundantly clear that you have strong biases as you preclude anything that doesn't agree with your predetermined verdict.
TM was not "high". He had a small amount of THC in his system, indicating he had smoked marijuana in the recent past. He was NOT high at the time, to repeat.
He was not reported to be looking into car windows, per GZ's report to the police. He had no prior history of stealing, and GZ didn't know who he was, anyway.
GZ had been calling the police more frequently in the past month than he had in the past. He called the police 4 times in the month prior to KILLING Trayvon. I thinkhe was coming "unglued".
#1 Maybe he was becoming unglued, or maybe an increase in crime made him pay more attention and make more calls.
#2 Zimmerman said to 911 "This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about.....Now he’s staring at me.....Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.....Something’s wrong with him. Yep, he’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is.....He’s running."
Zimmerman's phone call to 911 clearly shows that he thinks Martin is suspicious. He doesn't include every detail of what Martin does, but with more and more break ins and a guy acting high and looking about does seem suspicious in a neighborhood with growing crime.
#3 "Toxicology tests found elements of the drug in the teenager's chest blood -- 1.5 nanograms per milliliter of one type (THC), as well as 7.3 nanograms of another type (THC-COOH) -- according to the medical examiner's report. There also was a presumed positive test of cannabinoids in Martin's urine, according to the medical examiner's report. It was not immediately clear how significant these amounts were........Concentrations of THC routinely rise to 100 to 200 ng/ml after marijuana use, though it typically falls to below 5 ng/ml within three hours of it being smoked, according to information on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's website......
While some states have zero-tolerance policies for any drug traces for driving while impaired, others set certain benchmarks, the website of California's Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs notes. In Nevada, that equates to 2 ng/ml for THC and 5 ng/ml for THC-COOH -- also known as marijuana metabolite. The cutoff level in Ohio is 2 ng/ml for THC and 50 ng/ml for THC-COOH."
Nothing definitive the CNN article says, but it is possible that he was high or high within a few hours beforehand.
No. If Martin was acting suspicious, he was acting suspicious and it was a legitimate perception.
The Bottom Line is that you don't know what happened. Nor do I.
This is not necessarily like blaming a rape victim, because it is 100% possible that Martin was in fact threatening his safety or life. If that is the case, self defense is a real legal term that would say Martin was not a victim and Zimmerman is not guilty of a crime.
It is abundantly clear that you have strong biases as you preclude anything that doesn't agree with your predetermined verdict.
What predetermined verdict? Not guilty? Who, besides Zimmerman, says Martin was "acting suspicious" and how do you prove that Zimmerman's perceptions would be the same as any other person watching Trayvon? Do you really think that everything Zimmerman says will just be taken as the "truth" without any questions asked in court?
I'm well aware of the self defense statute in Florida. But you are making a reference to the stand your ground law. Self defense requires that every reasonable effort be exhausted to get away in order to apply.
"Acting suspicious" in George Zimmerman's perception.....there were no other witnesses to Martin "acting suspicious." Zimmerman's credibility and perception will be tested by the prosecutors in an immunity hearing and/or trial. We don't just take the word of a defendant as the pure and wholesome truth in criminal cases. In this case Zimmerman has asserted self defense and therefore he has to put on evidence of self defense.
As for blaming a rape victim for being raped because of her clothing, I have no doubt that there are those out there who would believe 100% that if she had just worn different clothes she would not have been raped. It's also 100% possible that Zimmerman provoked a fight with Martin and did not exhaust every reasonable effort to retreat.
The above is why there will be an immunity hearing or a trial. It's not a done deal at this point.
#1 Maybe he was becoming unglued, or maybe an increase in crime made him pay more attention and make more calls.
#2 Zimmerman said to 911 "This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about.....Now he’s staring at me.....Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.....Something’s wrong with him. Yep, he’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is.....He’s running."
Zimmerman's phone call to 911 clearly shows that he thinks Martin is suspicious. He doesn't include every detail of what Martin does, but with more and more break ins and a guy acting high and looking about does seem suspicious in a neighborhood with growing crime.
#3 "Toxicology tests found elements of the drug in the teenager's chest blood -- 1.5 nanograms per milliliter of one type (THC), as well as 7.3 nanograms of another type (THC-COOH) -- according to the medical examiner's report. There also was a presumed positive test of cannabinoids in Martin's urine, according to the medical examiner's report. It was not immediately clear how significant these amounts were........Concentrations of THC routinely rise to 100 to 200 ng/ml after marijuana use, though it typically falls to below 5 ng/ml within three hours of it being smoked, according to information on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's website......
While some states have zero-tolerance policies for any drug traces for driving while impaired, others set certain benchmarks, the website of California's Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs notes. In Nevada, that equates to 2 ng/ml for THC and 5 ng/ml for THC-COOH -- also known as marijuana metabolite. The cutoff level in Ohio is 2 ng/ml for THC and 50 ng/ml for THC-COOH."
Nothing definitive the CNN article says, but it is possible that he was high or high within a few hours beforehand.
1. You could check out the crime stats yourself if you want. GZ has a history of "Jekyll/Hyde" behavior; he was fired from a job for calling the HR hotline too frequently. He was on prescription meds himself.
2. Nothing in the call about Trayvon looking into car windows. "S/he looks like s/he's on drugs" is a common statement people make. It is, IMO, meaningless.
3. As you say, there is nothing definitive about Trayvon being high at the time, and his THC levels do not support such an assertion.
#1 Maybe he was becoming unglued, or maybe an increase in crime made him pay more attention and make more calls.
#2 Zimmerman said to 911 "This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about.....Now he’s staring at me.....Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.....Something’s wrong with him. Yep, he’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is.....He’s running."
Zimmerman's phone call to 911 clearly shows that he thinks Martin is suspicious. He doesn't include every detail of what Martin does, but with more and more break ins and a guy acting high and looking about does seem suspicious in a neighborhood with growing crime.
#3 "Toxicology tests found elements of the drug in the teenager's chest blood -- 1.5 nanograms per milliliter of one type (THC), as well as 7.3 nanograms of another type (THC-COOH) -- according to the medical examiner's report. There also was a presumed positive test of cannabinoids in Martin's urine, according to the medical examiner's report. It was not immediately clear how significant these amounts were........Concentrations of THC routinely rise to 100 to 200 ng/ml after marijuana use, though it typically falls to below 5 ng/ml within three hours of it being smoked, according to information on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's website......
While some states have zero-tolerance policies for any drug traces for driving while impaired, others set certain benchmarks, the website of California's Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs notes. In Nevada, that equates to 2 ng/ml for THC and 5 ng/ml for THC-COOH -- also known as marijuana metabolite. The cutoff level in Ohio is 2 ng/ml for THC and 50 ng/ml for THC-COOH."
Nothing definitive the CNN article says, but it is possible that he was high or high within a few hours beforehand.
Have you read that Martin was talking on his phone with a friend as he was walking home? There certainly could be other reasons why he was just "strolling" along, not in a focused walk home, when Zimmerman saw him. He was talking on his cell phone. Btw, if there is any question about that, it can be verified via phone records. Also, he had told his friend somebody was following him, and he had seen Zimmerman following him in his car. I supposed that would make Martin suspicious and want to know who was in the car. Maybe at first Martin might have thought the person in the car was a friend and was looking to see if he recognized him.
If you want to see what "evidence" is really available in this case, you can look online in the court file to see the discovery which has been posted.
What predetermined verdict? Not guilty? Who, besides Zimmerman, says Martin was "acting suspicious" and how do you prove that Zimmerman's perceptions would be the same as any other person watching Trayvon? Do you really think that everything Zimmerman says will just be taken as the "truth" without any questions asked in court?
I'm well aware of the self defense statute in Florida. But you are making a reference to the stand your ground law. Self defense requires that every reasonable effort be exhausted to get away in order to apply.
"Acting suspicious" in George Zimmerman's perception.....there were no other witnesses to Martin "acting suspicious." Zimmerman's credibility and perception will be tested by the prosecutors in an immunity hearing and/or trial. We don't just take the word of a defendant as the pure and wholesome truth in criminal cases. In this case Zimmerman has asserted self defense and therefore he has to put on evidence of self defense.
As for blaming a rape victim for being raped because of her clothing, I have no doubt that there are those out there who would believe 100% that if she had just worn different clothes she would not have been raped. It's also 100% possible that Zimmerman provoked a fight with Martin and did not exhaust every reasonable effort to retreat.
The above is why there will be an immunity hearing or a trial. It's not a done deal at this point.
You are making no sense.
Zimmerman's 911 call clearly indicates that he thought Martin was suspicious. You can't prove that Martin was acting suspicious. You can't prove that Martin wasn't the aggressor (even a member of the prosecution admitted this point essentially). You can't prove that Zimmerman didn't have sufficient reason to fear for his life.
I haven't made a conclusion yet - unlike you. I am just showing you that your predetermined outcome isn't provable with the evidence the public has.
It is a tragedy. A young kid is dead and another somewhat young life is forever ruined no matter what happened. What is even worse is there really isn't a lot of evidence against Zimmerman's version, at least released yet, so Zimmerman will probably walk from Murder charges even if he is lying and guilty. I am worried that we don't have enough evidence of who initiated a physical altercation and so forth.
I would not be surprised that the charges drop to Manslaughter so they don't have to prove as much.
These poor Trayvon threads. It's the same tired, boring people, regurgitating the same boring vomit, over and over and over. I guess they're trying to convince themselves. Talk about a broken record!
Have you read that Martin was talking on his phone with a friend as he was walking home? There certainly could be other reasons why he was just "strolling" along, not in a focused walk home, when Zimmerman saw him. He was talking on his cell phone. Btw, if there is any question about that, it can be verified via phone records. Also, he had told his friend somebody was following him, and he had seen Zimmerman following him in his car. I supposed that would make Martin suspicious and want to know who was in the car. Maybe at first Martin might have thought the person in the car was a friend and was looking to see if he recognized him.
If you want to see what "evidence" is really available in this case, you can look online in the court file to see the discovery which has been posted.
Yes, and it was not just a friend, but a girl friend.
I am taking that into account too. How long was he on the phone for? You see, you are only looking at one side. You are refusing to see Zimmerman's side. Your view is heavily slanted.
It is quite possible Martin did nothing wrong that night. It is also possible that Zimmerman did not break a law either. He did apparently break a rule of his organization not to be armed if he was on duty.
These poor Trayvon threads. It's the same tired, boring people, regurgitating the same boring vomit, over and over and over. I guess they're trying to convince themselves. Talk about a broken record!
I just got on here, but okay.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think it's abundantly clear that Zimmerman has some pretty strong biases.