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I'm not the President so it wouldn't matter if I
was born here or not, but if I decide to run....
I will post a photocopy
of my original birth certificate, as I have mine
It lists the date I was born, the time, my mother and fathers age, my parent's occupation, their address,
the doctor who delivered me, and the name of the hospital. You know, all
that kinda stuff that's on an original certificate of live
birth.
I'll even post copies of my foot prints, my
silver baby spoon with date and time of
birth on it, a photo of my bronze baby shoes,
and as a special memento: a copy of the silhouette painting they had done of my facial profile when I was a baby.
I guess my family went all out
when I was born
My Presidential platform: anti militarism, smaller government, and total transparency.
The copy with the footprints surely do not meet any legal requirements and depending on the state your original birth certificate may not even meet U>s State Dept guidelines and requirements.
What matters is this little thing called a law. Its the documents that meet the requirements under the law that matter, not documents that do not. You are basically asking Obama to provide a document that might not even meet the current requirements because you put more faith in that document rather than the document that he has already released that meet all standards under the law.
Now, I'm in my late 20's, so I can't currently run for President, but lets say I decided to run in 2020, now I have lost my original birth certificate. Similar to Hawaii and many other states, when you ask for a certified copy of your birth certificate from NY state, not only do you not get an option for a long form copy of your original, but they do not provide that period. What I did get from NY is a state certified copy (short-form) of my birth certificate and it meets all U.S state Dept requirements (much like Obama's).
So Would you then question my eligibility because I didn't provide my original long-form, but instead provided a state certified birth certificate that met all U.S State Dept requirements??
Hawaii does NOT provide the long form. They do not PERIOD. The COLB is not just a document that shows another document exists. Its a LEGAL AND STATE CERTIFIED BIRTH CERTIFICATE THAT MEETS ALL U.S STATE DEPT REQUIREMENTS> Its a LEGAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE UNDER THE LAW. Why do you have such a difficult time understand the LAW and LEGAL DOCUMENTS??
At present, HI does not provide a long form automatically. However, it can be presented, if needed or requested.
It is on file, it has not been destroyed.
I'm not going to keep debating this. There is an
original birth certificate for Obama, which has
specifics on his birth e.g. date, time, doctor, hospital
etc.
I have no difficulty understanding the law or legal
documents. Legally, no one is asking Obama to produce
anything at present.
Publicly, many are asking him to show his
original birth certificate.
If you are an Obama supporter, I can see why you want to just stand by the legality of it. For others, there's an integrity, transparency issue at hand, which has nothing to do with the law.
Let's see Obama run his next campaign strictly on "the law". Let's see how far that get's him.
Last edited by pollyrobin; 04-24-2011 at 11:01 PM..
At present, HI does not provide a long form automatically. However, it can be presented, if needed or requested.
It is on file, it has not been destroyed.
I'm not going to keep debating this. There is an
original birth certificate for Obama, which has
specifics on his birth e.g. date, time, doctor, hospital
etc.
I have no difficulty understanding the law or legal
documents. Legally, no one is asking Obama to produce
anything at present.
Publicly, many are asking him to show his
original birth certificate.
If you are an Obama supporter, I can see why you want to just stand by the legality of it. For others, there's an integrity, transparency issue at hand, which has nothing to do with the law.
Let Obama run his next campaign strictly on "the law". Let's see how far that get's him.
No it can't be requested or provided if needed when asked, Hawaii does not provide the long form PERIOD. You are not given an option to get the long form. All of the records are computerized, they do not provide it period. Same here in NY and many other states. A state certified copy of the long form is not provided under ANY circumstances, no options for that are given.
Its obvious you have no understanding about the law. For starters if you understood the law, you wouldn't be asking for a document the state does not even provide. Not to mention if you understood the law you would not be questioning his eligibility even though he has provided his legal birth certificate under the law, which is a state certified document verified by officials in Hawaii that meets all U.S State Dept requirements.
If you had even the SLIGHTEST comprehension of the law you still would not be questioning his eligibility
Most people do not understand that he has already provided the legal document, I have spoken to many people about this, and find the birther BS that he hasn't posted a "real" BC is rampant. Once intelligent, logical people learn the truth that he has posted a valid legal document that satisfies the state department, the story is over for them. Birthers just keep looking stupider the more they fight reality. People wonder why birthers keep spreading lies, are they just crazy conspiracy nuts, or is it that he's black, or has a foreign sounding name? Once people start asking those questions the disgust starts to set in. He has posted his legal birth certificate, that's more than is required, and more than has ever been asked of any other president.
At present, HI does not provide a long form automatically. However, it can be presented, if needed or requested.
It is on file, it has not been destroyed.
And has been told to you several times, Obama can goto the DOH and look at if he wants. The department however will not provide him a photocopy of it. Its against their policies
Those original birth records typically include additional birth details, such as the hospital and delivering doctor, said Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the state’s former health director who twice looked at and publicly confirmed Obama’s original long-form birth records.
But those documents are state government property that can’t be released to anyone, even the president himself, said Joshua Wisch, special assistant to the state attorney general. Obama would be able to inspect his birth records if he visited the Health Department in person, but original records of live birth are never released, he said.
The certification that the campaign received back —which shows that Obama was born in Honolulu at 7:24 p.m. on Aug. 4, 1961 — was based on the content of the original document in state files, Fukino said.
"What he got, everybody got," said Fukino. "He put out exactly what everybody gets when they ask for a birth certificate."
...
But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" — even to the individual whose birth it records.
"It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.
You are now repeating things that were said for the last 1000 posts. do you like repeating things like a parrot, even though you've been told (as replies in this very thread) that what you are asking for has already been answered.
broken record and circle jerk.
Quote:
I'm not going to keep debating this. There is an
original birth certificate for Obama, which has
specifics on his birth e.g. date, time, doctor, hospital
etc.
Yes no one disputes this. Where do you think that the abstract form gets its information?
What we are disputing is your claims that Obama has a copy of this original COLB and is hiding it. You have presented no evidence that he does.
Quote:
I have no difficulty understanding the law or legal
documents. Legally, no one is asking Obama to produce
anything at present.
You've shown previously that you actually don't.
Quote:
Publicly, many are asking him to show his
original birth certificate.
Read the quotes above. He can't show his original birth certificate. That form belongs to the State of Hawaii. He can only show Certified copies (which he has done) that the state provides.
Quote:
If you are an Obama supporter, I can see why you want to just stand by the legality of it. For others, there's an integrity, transparency issue at hand, which has nothing to do with the law.
PSST. I'm not an Obama supporter. I voted for Hillary and voted for McCain.
I do, however do not like how birthers lie about laws, policies and procedures.
Quote:
Let's see Obama run his next campaign strictly on "the law". Let's see how far that get's him.
He is. He announced his campaign for re-election. Guess what? Once he did that, the DNC and the RNC has already accepted his candidacy. All based strictly on "the law".
The copy with the footprints surely do not meet any legal requirements and depending on the state your original birth certificate may not even meet U>s State Dept guidelines and requirements.
What matters is this little thing called a law. Its the documents that meet the requirements under the law that matter, not documents that do not. You are basically asking Obama to provide a document that might not even meet the current requirements because you put more faith in that document rather than the document that he has already released that meet all standards under the law.
Now, I'm in my late 20's, so I can't currently run for President, but lets say I decided to run in 2020, now I have lost my original birth certificate. Similar to Hawaii and many other states, when you ask for a certified copy of your birth certificate from NY state, not only do you not get an option for a long form copy of your original, but they do not provide that period. What I did get from NY is a state certified copy (short-form) of my birth certificate and it meets all U.S state Dept requirements (much like Obama's).
So Would you then question my eligibility because I didn't provide my original long-form, but instead provided a state certified birth certificate that met all U.S State Dept requirements??
The footprints are just plain "cute"
I'd question the hell out of anyone from NY wanting to
run for President
I definitely would put more faith in his original
birth certificate issued to him/his parents in
1961. Yes. In the matter of law, what was required on
the "original certificate of live birth e.g. date, time,
doctor/midwife signature, hospital etc. is what is
required for you to get a COLB in the first place.
Then in 1961 and Today 2011.
You may have a COLB in your possession, but there is also the long form birth certificate on record. There are records
at the hospital you were born at as well. If you are under
the believe that the only thing recorded is what you see
on Obama's COLB you are mistaken. Those facts do not
disappear, they are simply not on your abstract COLB.
In fact, it is most hospitals today that automatically
arrange for your babies S.S. security card at birth for you,
so your child qualifies as a deduction on your taxes.
If you are an Obama supporter, I can see why you want to just stand by the legality of it. For others, there's an integrity, transparency issue at hand, which has nothing to do with the law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus
PSST. I'm not an Obama supporter. I voted for Hillary and voted for McCain.
I do, however do not like how birthers lie about laws, policies and procedures.
Exactly, he has no guaranteed vote from me. I am just disgusted by the constant lying, and truth twisting tactics employed by birthers, and the sheer stupidity, and disregard for logic and common sense I'm seeing. He has posted a legal valid US birth certificate. There is not one shred of evidence supporting him being born anywhere but Hawaii, to realize people in my country are falling into conspiracy theory ridiculousness is upsetting to say the least.
I'd question the hell out of anyone from NY wanting to
run for President
I definitely would put more faith in his original
birth certificate issued to him/his parents in
1961. Yes. In the matter of law, what was required on
the "original certificate of live birth e.g. date, time,
doctor/midwife signature, hospital etc. is what is
required for you to get a COLB in the first place.
Then in 1961 and Today 2011.
You may have a COLB in your possession, but there is also the long form birth certificate on record. There are records
at the hospital you were born at as well. If you are under
the believe that the only thing recorded is what you see
on Obama's COLB you are mistaken. Those facts do not
disappear, they are simply not on your abstract COLB.
In fact, it is most hospitals today that automatically
arrange for your babies S.S. security card at birth for you,
so your child qualifies as a deduction on your taxes.
Hospitals are not required to keep those records, not to mention many hospitals close down, change names, ownerships, etc. On top of that hospitals do not keep any actual legal birth records, they always come from the state's DOH. The Hospital record is generally known as a "Souvenir Birth Certificate", but is in no way shape or form any kind of legal record.
While the facts on the records do not disappear, the original long forms are simply not provided by a bunch of states. Numerous states simply do not provide them period. You request a certified copy of your birth certificate, you get a certified copy, in whatever form the specific state provides them.
So let me get this straight. You are basically saying in order to prove someone is eligible, you want to see documentation that isn't actually state certified, that doesn't prove they are eligible under the law?? That is what you want to see and you view that as more important than state certified documents that meet federal requirements and prove they are eligible under the law?? Do I understand that correctly??
At present, HI does not provide a long form automatically. However, it can be presented, if needed or requested.
It is on file, it has not been destroyed.
.
funny how Joshua Wisch, assistant to the HI state attorney general and Janice Okubo, spokeswoman for the state Department of health both think differently:
"What the would-be sleuths won't find is Obama's "long-form birth certificate," a confidential one-page document containing his original birth records kept on file in the first floor of the Department of Health.
Those original birth records typically include additional birth details, such as the hospital and delivering doctor, said Dr. Chiyome Fukino, the state's former health director who twice looked at and publicly confirmed Obama's original long-form birth records. But those documents are state government property that can't be released to anyone, even the president himself, said Joshua Wisch, special assistant to the state attorney general. Obama would be able to inspect his birth records if he visited the Health Department in person, but original records of live birth are never released, he said. "
"No, you can't obtain a "certificate of live birth" anymore.
The state Department of Health no longer issues copies of paper birth certificates as was done in the past, said spokeswoman Janice Okubo."
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