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I know what you are saying, that even in light of his behavior that got him expelled from college, we should be wary of forcing mental healthcare on people. We are all different, and those differences should be valued. But a mental health assessment of this man, especially in light of his behavior, and of his general incoherence, I think would have revealed that he was at risk. His friends and classmates all report his inability to maintain a coherent conversation. That's not a minor problem. His obsession with lucid dreaming combined with his other disassociative behaviors would all have been red flags.
I am not the one to discuss what should be done with the seriously mentally ill,I favor locking them up and unless incredibly compelling evidence is shown,not letting them out.
I know what you are saying, that even in light of his behavior that got him expelled from college, we should be wary of forcing mental healthcare on people. We are all different, and those differences should be valued. But a mental health assessment of this man, especially in light of his behavior, and of his general incoherence, I think would have revealed that he was at risk. His friends and classmates all report his inability to maintain a coherent conversation. That's not a minor problem. His obsession with lucid dreaming combined with his other disassociative behaviors would all have been red flags.
The problem is that there is no central place for people to report all those red flags. It's only in hindsight that they all come to light in one place and become clear indicators. With the exception of his parents who surely must have seen what was going on.
The problem is that there is no central place for people to report all those red flags. It's only in hindsight that they all come to light in one place and become clear indicators. With the exception of his parents who surely must have seen what was going on.
Yes there is,as far as trying to purchase a firearm anyway.
The fedgov. checks the records of every person who buys a firearm through an FFL.
Problem is,those records are incomplete due to medical privacy laws.
So the question we should be asking is,how private should our medical records be?
The problem is that there is no central place for people to report all those red flags. It's only in hindsight that they all come to light in one place and become clear. With the exception of his parents who surely must have seen what was going on.
While Sheriff Dupnik himself has said there were previous threats made (not known to who or about what) and the local mental health services has found no records of his getting treatment, it appears the ball was dropped several times in this young man's case. My first concern is why the local law enforcement, knowing of these threats and concerns by Pima CC, did not follow up and get this young man evaluated.
Yes there is,as far as trying to purchase a firearm anyway.
The fedgov. checks the records of every person who buys a firearm through an FFL.
Problem is,those records are incomplete due to medical privacy laws.
So the question we should be asking is,how private should our medical records be?
Didn't he use a fake driver's license to purchase that gun? However.......from Southbell's link:
Quote:
National surveys have ranked Arizona near the bottom for how it provides mental health services. And more recently, like other states, Arizona has seen its mental health budget cut dramatically.
If, as it appears, Loughner was never "adjudicated" mentally ill - the standard that appears on federal firearms forms - then his name would not have been flagged in any background check when he sought to buy the 9mm Glock he allegedly used in the shootings.
Last edited by Wayland Woman; 01-11-2011 at 03:06 PM..
Mental health experts say that, unlike many other states - where little can be done to force an unstable person into treatment until he or she becomes violent and poses a danger to themself or others - Arizona is different.
Any person in Arizona can petition the court for a psychiatric evaluation solely because a person appears to be mentally ill and doesn't know it.
Okay,now that it seems we are past blaming maps and words,what do y'all think could be done to curb(you will never stop) such events from happening again?
From all that has been posted,he had some pretty obvious signs of mental problems.He hadn't received treatment however.
The object he used to kill is unimportant in my opinion,if he had used a car we wouldn't be going on about it.
The problem is that there is no central place for people to report all those red flags. It's only in hindsight that they all come to light in one place and become clear indicators. With the exception of his parents who surely must have seen what was going on.
His parents' situation reminds me of what it's like when you live with someone who is changing. Whether it's parents aging, or whether it's a child growing up. There is something in the familiarity of the day-to-day that makes those changes much more subtle. And in a family with a mentally ill person, that's true, too. Their behavior may be increasingly bizarre, but when you live with someone, you don't have the objectivity to even quantify the change in behavior. And your bias, to your child, to think that everything is all right, must be overwhelming. I think they probably were concerned a long time ago, but as humans we adjust to concerns, to anxiety. His expulsion from school was a critical turning point. I think that's when he needed a mental health assessment, and that a professional would have seen the red flags.
His parents' situation reminds me of what it's like when you live with someone who is changing. Whether it's parents aging, or whether it's a child growing up. There is something in the familiarity of the day-to-day that makes those changes much more subtle. And in a family with a mentally ill person, that's true, too. Their behavior may be increasingly bizarre, but when you live with someone, you don't have the objectivity to even quantify the change in behavior. And your bias, to your child, to think that everything is all right, must be overwhelming. I think they probably were concerned a long time ago, but as humans we adjust to concerns, to anxiety. His expulsion from school was a critical turning point. I think that's when he needed a mental health assessment, and that a professional would have seen the red flags.
This is very true,it took us a long time to realise the changes that were happening in my MIL.....hopefully it isn't too late.
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