Downtown Population increased 25% since 2000 (Pittsburgh, McDonald: rated, transit, financing)

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by JoeP

and in fact the high end concept I find disconcerting.

Like it or not MOST urban cores of major U.S. cities are trending upscale as they cater to affluent residents. There's a thread currently on the Philadelphia sub-forum in which people are discussing new retailers moving into Center City (their "Downtown"). Nearly all of them are high-end. I think as a segue from the other thread in which we were discussing whether or not Pittsburgh's sudden national popularity has proven to be a boon or burden we're all mostly just in a state of shock because our overall real estate prices have gone from "rock bottom" on a national scale to "average" on a national scale in such an incredibly brief period of time. As I said about my own neighborhood median rents for 1-BR apartments have soared by several hundred dollars per month just over the course of 2-3 years from where my former $550/month was "a tad high for the neighborhood" to where $800/month is pretty typical. That's an incredibly rapid rate of appreciation, and while we're all balking at the notion of paying a minimum of $1,200/month to rent a 1-BR unit Downtown nowadays we're really just "catching up" to other cities VERY quickly---even more rapidly than employers are keeping pace with in terms of wage/salary increases.

Downtown Pittsburgh is destined to become a playground for the wealthy, similar to Manhattan, SF, Center City Philadelphia, NW DC, and many other central cores in this country. I'd like to see it more "mixed-income", too, with middle-class-oriented retailers and restaurants instead of everything being akin to Shadyside's Walnut Street, but that's not the future of Downtown.

[pman]

Originally Posted by JoeP

I don't think wine and beer matter at all. It should be about easy access to food for residents (or workers getting lunch or stuff to take home later) and in fact the high end concept I find disconcerting.

wine and beer could be hedging their bets, they're not running a non-profit, someone is going to risk capital on this project. you can already buy milk, eggs, cereal, and national brand stuff at the numerous drug stores and 7-11. falbo is probably looking to fill a niche and hedge his bets. the "supermarket" concept may not be a good fit, and you don't necessarily need to be able to buy everything in one place.

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Like it or not MOST urban cores of major U.S. cities are trending upscale as they cater to affluent residents. There's a thread currently on the Philadelphia sub-forum in which people are discussing new retailers moving into Center City (their "Downtown"). ...
Downtown Pittsburgh is destined to become a playground for the wealthy, similar to Manhattan, SF, Center City Philadelphia, NW DC, and many other central cores in this country. I'd like to see it more "mixed-income", too, with middle-class-oriented retailers and restaurants instead of everything being akin to Shadyside's Walnut Street, but that's not the future of Downtown.

I think you might be getting carried away a little. 10 years ago high end was the one thing you couldn't get. the increase in high end retail is filling a missing component but there's still middle (marshall's, H&M, banana republic, macy's) and lower end (dollar stores) all over the place. although center city has become pricey to live, it isn't simply a playground for the wealthy, there's places for everyone to work or play. downtown pittsburgh will likely follow suit, being home to young people who work nearby or want access to excellent transit and don't mind small places or people with more money but it doesn't mean there won't be people to shop. btw, they could hedge their bets on the bar part by hosting a local winery, they can legally have up to five retail outlets statewide. of course, you can already have a bar in a grocery store now as long as you follow some insane rules. what you can't do is sell wine on the shelf, nuts.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by JoeP

I don't think wine and beer matter at all. It should be about easy access to food for residents (or workers getting lunch or stuff to take home later) and in fact the high end concept I find disconcerting.

It matters in terms of basically what pman says, as in something that can help pay the rent. Wine definitely doesn't happen without the law changing, although they could as mentioned host a PA winery that's true. Also it's possible that the existing restaurant that's somehow involved in the plan provides some angle for that, not sure. Beer, though, they could do in the same way that other grocery stores have done. And I think that would be a decent idea because I can't think of a good place to buy beer to go downtown. Once they get to the beer-selling idea they could have a little bar in the shop, a la the Wexford Whole Foods. That place can sell glasses of wine as I recall along with beer on tap and packaged beer either for eat in or to go. That sort of setup would work well in a downtown grocery methinks.

What you don't need in this store is: much if any standard snack/junk food that you can get in 7-11 and CVS, don't think you really need too may non-food items and don't think you need too much dry shelf packaged food either unless it's stuff you can't get at the CVS. The key idea is I think: "I don't have anything for dinner at home and don't want to go out". That can also suit the commuter a little sometimes but mainly it helps the downtown resident who in that scenario might otherwise have to get in the car.

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by greg42

...it almost sounds like they could be counting on the wine sales being privatized, which is not a good bet with our idiotic senate.

Indeed, I suspect being able to sell wine and beer would go a long way towards making a grocery downtown more easily succeed.

I can only dream...

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by pman

you can already have a bar in a grocery store now as long as you follow some insane rules. what you can't do is sell wine on the shelf, nuts.

Totally nuts!

[JoeP]

I should clarify, selling upscale items is fine and makes sense to an extent - rent is high in places like downtown so income levels are likely to suggest a market for well... a market for such things.... however my point is regardless of incomes, residents need items beyond what can be purchased at 7/11 and CVS as well that are not necessarily upscale... that's all I mean.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by JoeP

I should clarify, selling upscale items is fine and makes sense to an extent - rent is high in places like downtown so income levels are likely to suggest a market for well... a market for such things.... however my point is regardless of incomes, residents need items beyond what can be purchased at 7/11 and CVS as well that are not necessarily upscale... that's all I mean.

That's very true. What any downtown resident might need beyond CVS/7-11 is produce or meat or other items that are more perishable, which are really not necessarily upscale but just are what they are.

They're definitely going to cost more though in such a store vs elsewhere, but the convenience can outweigh that. The convenience might still not outweigh it though for those on the lower side of the income scale.

[pman]

Originally Posted by greg42

That's very true. What any downtown resident might need beyond CVS/7-11 is produce or meat or other items that are more perishable, which are really not necessarily upscale but just are what they are.

They're definitely going to cost more though in such a store vs elsewhere, but the convenience can outweigh that. The convenience might still not outweigh it though for those on the lower side of the income scale.

the store, if run well, will improve residents access to perishables and maybe even essentials (in my view) such as olive oils, coffee, etc. as well as fresh bread and some produce. it's a stepping stone, it isn't hard to imagine that if the residential population continues to increase, eventually a larger store will open and if this place wasn't a niche, it might be put out of business.

[pman]

Downtown Pittsburgh building boom shows no signs of letting up - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

[cry_havoc]

Downtown Pittsburgh is beautiful but it becomes dead at night and weekends.

I wish there was more to do there.