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I could probably find street views like those in most Pittsburgh city neighborhoods. Does it mean that those neighborhoods are also suburban?
As I said, I think urban is more of a spectrum thing, but IMHO the only unquestionably urban residential neighborhoods in Pittsburgh are:
Uptown
Oakland (Central/South/West)
Polish Hill
Bloomfield
Lawrenceville
Allegheny West
Manchester
Central North Side
East Allegheny
Troy Hill
South Side (Flats and much of the slopes)
West End Village
There's a number of residential neighborhoods which were historically more urban, but which were either totally demolished (Old Allegheny City, the Strip District, "North Shore) are being rebuilt in a more "soft urban" style (the Hill District) or are too blighted to feel urban any longer (California Kirkbride). There's also a number of neighborhoods where parts feel urban, parts suburban, and other parts like backwoods country (Garfield, Hazelwood, Spring Garden, Spring Hill, Fineview, etc).
IMHO the next "tier" of urbanity in the city are the streetcar suburbs which were built out in around 1900 - Highland Park, Friendship, East Liberty, etc. The top of this tier in urbanity is undoubtedly North Oakland and Shadyside, which saw a lot of later infill which made the neighborhoods denser. Still, even their densest sections are significantly more spread out than the older neighborhoods, with no good streetwalls outside of the commercial districts. In most cities in the Midwest, West, and South neighborhoods like this would be the most urban area outside of Downtown, but fortunately we have a longer history and preserved many more of our classic neighborhoods.
Squirrel Hill comes after this, as although some of the neighborhood was built out during the streetcar era, a lot was also built out during the first automotive era in the 1920s. As I stated, Squirrel Hill had the first gas station in the city, and if you consider a guiding principle of suburbs to be their autocentric status, then it was unquestionably one of the first suburbs in Allegheny County. It being one the only suburban-era neighborhoods with a large business district and many multifamily housing options puts it ahead of many other city neighborhoods however.
But yes, a lot of city neighborhoods are suburban. Point Breeze, Swisshelm Park, Stanton Heights, Summer Hill, Chartiers, Windgap, Crafton Heights, Westwood, Ridgemont, Bon Air, Carrick, Overbrook, and Lincoln Place are all, IMHO unquestionably suburban. There's many more I'd say are more suburban than Squirrel Hill, like Brookline, Beechview, and Greenfield. Once again, the choppy nature of Pittsburgh's development can make it hard to classify many neighborhoods. Somewhere like Greenfield, for example, has areas of old 19th century housing separated by a few blocks by mid-century ranches. But all of these neighborhoods lack the high number of multi-family units you see in Squirrel Hill, and either have smaller commercial districts or lack one entirely.
As I said, I think urban is more of a spectrum thing, but IMHO the only unquestionably urban residential neighborhoods in Pittsburgh are:
Uptown
Oakland (Central/South/West)
Polish Hill
Bloomfield
Lawrenceville
Allegheny West
Manchester
Central North Side
East Allegheny
Troy Hill
South Side (Flats and much of the slopes)
West End Village
There's a number of residential neighborhoods which were historically more urban, but which were either totally demolished (Old Allegheny City, the Strip District, "North Shore) are being rebuilt in a more "soft urban" style (the Hill District) or are too blighted to feel urban any longer (California Kirkbride). There's also a number of neighborhoods where parts feel urban, parts suburban, and other parts like backwoods country (Garfield, Hazelwood, Spring Garden, Spring Hill, Fineview, etc).
IMHO the next "tier" of urbanity in the city are the streetcar suburbs which were built out in around 1900 - Highland Park, Friendship, East Liberty, etc. The top of this tier in urbanity is undoubtedly North Oakland and Shadyside, which saw a lot of later infill which made the neighborhoods denser. Still, even their densest sections are significantly more spread out than the older neighborhoods, with no good streetwalls outside of the commercial districts. In most cities in the Midwest, West, and South neighborhoods like this would be the most urban area outside of Downtown, but fortunately we have a longer history and preserved many more of our classic neighborhoods.
Squirrel Hill comes after this, as although some of the neighborhood was built out during the streetcar era, a lot was also built out during the first automotive era in the 1920s. As I stated, Squirrel Hill had the first gas station in the city, and if you consider a guiding principle of suburbs to be their autocentric status, then it was unquestionably one of the first suburbs in Allegheny County. It being one the only suburban-era neighborhoods with a large business district and many multifamily housing options puts it ahead of many other city neighborhoods however.
But yes, a lot of city neighborhoods are suburban. Point Breeze, Swisshelm Park, Stanton Heights, Summer Hill, Chartiers, Windgap, Crafton Heights, Westwood, Ridgemont, Bon Air, Carrick, Overbrook, and Lincoln Place are all, IMHO unquestionably suburban. There's many more I'd say are more suburban than Squirrel Hill, like Brookline, Beechview, and Greenfield. Once again, the choppy nature of Pittsburgh's development can make it hard to classify many neighborhoods. Somewhere like Greenfield, for example, has areas of old 19th century housing separated by a few blocks by mid-century ranches. But all of these neighborhoods lack the high number of multi-family units you see in Squirrel Hill, and either have smaller commercial districts or lack one entirely.
I believe the first drive-in gas station was on Baum Blvd in 1913. However there may have been standalone pumps located at other businesses that dispensed fuel.
I believe the first drive-in gas station was on Baum Blvd in 1913. However there may have been standalone pumps located at other businesses that dispensed fuel.
Yes, it appears I made a mistake. I may have been confusing it with the Gulf Oil gas station at the corner of Forbes and Murray, which was built significantly later (in 1935) but was at the time the second-largest gas station in the country.
As I said, I think urban is more of a spectrum thing, but IMHO the only unquestionably urban residential neighborhoods in Pittsburgh are:
Uptown
Oakland (Central/South/West)
Polish Hill
Bloomfield
Lawrenceville
Allegheny West
Manchester
Central North Side
East Allegheny
Troy Hill
South Side (Flats and much of the slopes)
West End Village
There's a number of residential neighborhoods which were historically more urban, but which were either totally demolished (Old Allegheny City, the Strip District, "North Shore) are being rebuilt in a more "soft urban" style (the Hill District) or are too blighted to feel urban any longer (California Kirkbride). There's also a number of neighborhoods where parts feel urban, parts suburban, and other parts like backwoods country (Garfield, Hazelwood, Spring Garden, Spring Hill, Fineview, etc).
IMHO the next "tier" of urbanity in the city are the streetcar suburbs which were built out in around 1900 - Highland Park, Friendship, East Liberty, etc. The top of this tier in urbanity is undoubtedly North Oakland and Shadyside, which saw a lot of later infill which made the neighborhoods denser. Still, even their densest sections are significantly more spread out than the older neighborhoods, with no good streetwalls outside of the commercial districts. In most cities in the Midwest, West, and South neighborhoods like this would be the most urban area outside of Downtown, but fortunately we have a longer history and preserved many more of our classic neighborhoods.
Squirrel Hill comes after this, as although some of the neighborhood was built out during the streetcar era, a lot was also built out during the first automotive era in the 1920s. As I stated, Squirrel Hill had the first gas station in the city, and if you consider a guiding principle of suburbs to be their autocentric status, then it was unquestionably one of the first suburbs in Allegheny County. It being one the only suburban-era neighborhoods with a large business district and many multifamily housing options puts it ahead of many other city neighborhoods however.
But yes, a lot of city neighborhoods are suburban. Point Breeze, Swisshelm Park, Stanton Heights, Summer Hill, Chartiers, Windgap, Crafton Heights, Westwood, Ridgemont, Bon Air, Carrick, Overbrook, and Lincoln Place are all, IMHO unquestionably suburban. There's many more I'd say are more suburban than Squirrel Hill, like Brookline, Beechview, and Greenfield. Once again, the choppy nature of Pittsburgh's development can make it hard to classify many neighborhoods. Somewhere like Greenfield, for example, has areas of old 19th century housing separated by a few blocks by mid-century ranches. But all of these neighborhoods lack the high number of multi-family units you see in Squirrel Hill, and either have smaller commercial districts or lack one entirely.
Greenfield and SH are both clearly urban neighborhoods, in my opinion. Having lived in both I am confident in saying this. In Greenfield, you typically have smaller yards, single car garages (or none at all), sidewalks that go just about anywhere, city steps over the hill sides, streets that usually connect, multiple bus options, several business districts instead of strip malls (though there is one small strip mall) and mostly a high population density.
Dormont has all that too. Plus I believe Dormont is more dense.
The densities of the four census tracts which comprise Dormont were roughly 8,850, 11,100, 11,900, and 15,250 people per square mile in 2010. The lowest density tract includes Dormont Park - otherwise it would presumably be rather similar density to the other three.
The census tracts of Squirrel Hill (discounting the parks) were 6,750, 8,350, 9,450, 9,700, 10,850 and 14,900. The only census tract more dense than 3/4ths of Dormont was the one bounded by Forbes, Murray, Schenley Park, and 376, which isn't surprising, considering it has a lot of multi-family blocks. The other apartment block area, by Forward is in a large census block which included a lot of undeveloped land by Summerset @ Frick, which brings down density a lot.
Overall, I'd say it's pretty clear (from the map I posted upthread) that Squirrel Hill has patchy density, with some very high density areas and others which are very low density. On the other hand, since Dormont has no major parks besides Dormont Park, lacks any undeveloped land, industrial zones, or even large-lot neighborhoods (although the northern quadrant - between Potomac and W Liberty - has slightly larger lots). Still, overall, it's probably a much more consistent level of development.
I asked my spouse, as a neutral party (he is from Nebraska) if he thought SH was "suburban". He laughed. Certainly as kids, going from Beaver Falls to visit the relatives in SH, we thought it was urban. So did my parents. We were considered the "Country Cousins".
Regarding Greenfield, I'm pretty sure their old welcome sign actually said "A Suburb In The City." It seems the image of the old sign was scrubbed from the web though. You can find references to this on many sites however.
Do a google image seach for urban neighborhood, then one for suburban neighborhood. SH and Dormont are much more like the former.
Urban Neighborhood: I see lots of rowhouses, storefronts, and other building styles with zero setback (e.g., houses right on the sidewalk). A shot of an urban neighborhood from Detroit is the only one which looks anything like Squirrel Hill or Dormont on the first page.
Suburban neighborhood: I see deatched single-family houses with front yards and driveways.
Obviously Squirrel Hill or Dormont occupy some intermediate place, but there's no question that they are more like this...
Than this:
Moderator cut: copyrighted image removed
Last edited by Yac; 10-09-2015 at 05:09 AM..
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