How Tasteless Suburbs Become Beloved Urban Neighborhoods (Pittsburgh, Beaver Falls: live, malls)

[gladhands]

Originally Posted by _Buster

Ha ha, more like the Staten Island of Pittsburgh. If Pgh had an upper west side type area, which neighborhood(s) would it be?

Having lived both on the UWS and in Sq Hill, I have to say Squirrel Hill, adjusted for city size/density is a really close analogue.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by gladhands

If I had to wager, I'd guess that factoring out the non inhabitable portions, Sq Hill S is more densely populated than Sq Hill North, because it has more apartment buildings and duplexes, and homes/yards tend to be much smaller.

Squirrel Hill South is much denser overall. The dark red areas are mostly the census blocks where the two major apartment districts (the one around Beacon and the other around Forward) are located. Squirrel Hill South also has far more of the moderately dense blocks, with between 15,001 and 30,000 people per square mile.

[jay5835]

Originally Posted by _Buster

Ha ha, more like the Staten Island of Pittsburgh. If Pgh had an upper west side type area, which neighborhood(s) would it be?

Staten Island? AY*KM? Staten Island is like Squirrel Hill to you?

I think of the UWS as a neighborhood where intellectuals live, college professors, scientists, doctors. People from Columbia U. Traditionally it's been this way, at least (I haven't lived in NY for a long time). Now, I suppose it's hedge fundies and the "international rich," mostly, like the rest of Manhattan. Staten Island, OTOH, is where you live if you're a fireman or a cop. Not that there's anything wrong with being a fireman or a cop, but Elliott Stabler on SVU didn't live on Riverside Drive (though Chris Meloni used to).

And in Pittsburgh, Squirrel Hill is where professors, scientists, doctors, etc., tend to live.

Both places are known for their substantial Jewish population, as well.

Squirrel Hill : Pittsburgh = Staten Island : New York City? I don't think anyone but you has ever put forth that proposition.

[_Buster]

Originally Posted by jay5835

Staten Island? AY*KM? Staten Island is like Squirrel Hill to you?

I think of the UWS as a neighborhood where intellectuals live, college professors, scientists, doctors. People from Columbia U. Traditionally it's been this way, at least (I haven't lived in NY for a long time). Now, I suppose it's hedge fundies and the "international rich," mostly, like the rest of Manhattan. Staten Island, OTOH, is where you live if you're a fireman or a cop. Not that there's anything wrong with being a fireman or a cop, but Elliott Stabler on SVU didn't live on Riverside Drive (though Chris Meloni used to).

And in Pittsburgh, Squirrel Hill is where professors, scientists, doctors, etc., tend to live.

Both places are known for their substantial Jewish population, as well.

Squirrel Hill : Pittsburgh = Staten Island : New York City? I don't think anyone but you has ever put forth that proposition.

I'm not talking about the stereotypes of the people who live there - just the look and feel of the area. Because this whole side discussion started with talking about how urban or suburburban, SH is. that rarely has much to do with residents careers or social status.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by _Buster

I'm not talking about the stereotypes of the people who live there - just the look and feel of the area. Because this whole side discussion started with talking about how urban or suburburban, SH is. that rarely has much to do with residents careers or social status.

Certain portions of Staten Island do look like Squirrel Hill South. Barring brick houses being pretty rare in much of Staten Island.

[MountainDewGuy]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Here's some random streetviews from residential streets in Squirrel Hill.

Squirrel Hill Ave
Solway Street
Aylesboro Avenue
Hobart Street
Pocusset Street
Mt Royal Boulevard
Fernwald Road

Yes, the streets have sidewalks, and most of the houses were built before 1950. But I don't see what makes the streetscapes fundamentally different from any number of streets in the first-ring suburbs built out over the same period. Even most of the areas you find two flats, rowhouses, and apartment buildings are built out in a semi-suburban style, with generous setbacks from the street and big front lawns. Most of this has to do with the time it was built out as a neighborhood - when automobiles became a big thing (don't forget Squirrel Hill had the first gas station in Pittsburgh).

Squirrel Hill does have the Forbes-Murray business district of course, which is walkable. But Murray Avenue's business district is only slightly longer than Uptown Mount Lebanon. I think the best description of Squirrel Hill is a suburban neighborhood with an "urban-light" backbone of commercial and higher-density residential running through it.

I could probably find street views like those in most Pittsburgh city neighborhoods. Does it mean that those neighborhoods are also suburban?

I'd argue that Mt. Lebanon is closer to a city neighborhood, then Sq Hill is to suburban neighborhood. Especially with the T extending through part of ML. When I think of suburban, I don't necessary think of those locations very near the city or places that have a central business district where the neighborhood branches off from it. I think of places where neighborhoods were just plopped down somewhere, and almost always require one to drive anywhere, either because of distance and/or because of the lack of suitable sidewalks for walking. To me, that is the point of living in the suburbs. You are a bit further away from places to go then you are in or near the city.

[ferraris]

In most of the country "suburban" connotates a large yard, probably measured in terms of partial acres than feet, an integral multi car garage, few sidewalks, windy cul de sacs "grids", strip mall or faux town center business districts, and virtually no multi-units that aren't full on apartment complexes. Squirrel Hill simply isn't that.

While it's not the poster child for "urban", it's clearly not the poster child for "suburban" either.

You could call it a tie based solely on the built environment, but city services, city government, city taxes, city school, and proximity to the unquestionably urban parts of Pittsburgh tip it towards "urban" in my opinion.

[Copanut]

If SH isn't Urban, I don't know what is.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Copanut

If SH isn't Urban, I don't know what is.

Agreed!

[gg]

Originally Posted by Copanut

I don't know what is.

Correct.