How Tasteless Suburbs Become Beloved Urban Neighborhoods (Pittsburgh, Plymouth: buy, new construction)

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by ferraris

Google Streetview is spotty in a lot of of those areas. Do I small some upcoming photo tours?

West Newton

Fayette City

Brownsville

Etna



Sharpsburg and Tarentum have Canal Era houses, too (1830s). Natrona has houses built in 1850 for the Penn Salt Works. Etna has at least one house from the 1820s.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

In my opinion, older equals more historically significant. Sadly, a lot of people are only concerned with saving beautiful buildings. Taken together, modest old homes do make beautiful neighborhoods. Take German Village in Columbus, or Elfreth's Alley in Philadelphia, for instance.

I agree that modest homes, taken together, can become much more than the sum of their parts. Many of the actual mundane structures in cherished European cities (for example, Rome) are actually pretty plain/grungy looking. This makes sense because the side streets are often so narrow you would have to work to actually see the entire facade of a building.

That said, the issue with this argument regarding Pittsburgh is, as you noted, the damage has already been done, since there are no notable stands of pre-1850 buildings remaining in the city. Which makes it much easier for anti-preservationist forces to argue that the few remaining structures aren't enough to warrant historical protection.

[RogersParkTransplant]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

Some of the oldest houses in East Allegheny were on Phineas Street, and recently demolished for new development, sadly.

Just curious -- do you know exactly which buildings were lost, and how old they were? I live pretty close to there, and I think it was only 3 or 4 houses lost, and they weren't actually the oldest ones, but I could be wrong. Anyway, most of Phineas is still there today, and unaffected by the construction. I was actually more sad to lose a few of the Victorian storefronts that still stood on that stretch of E Ohio as part of the same construction project, but they were really far gone, and I hear there wasn't much that could be done to save them.

You probably know this, but one of the very oldest houses in East Allegheny is the one closest to Chestnut on Phineas, right across from the Teutonia Maennerchor. The Maennerchor actually owns it, and the rumor is they hope to restore it and make it a tiny local museum some day. I'm really very glad about that; it would be great to have it saved and opened to the public.

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by RogersParkTransplant

Just curious -- do you know exactly which buildings were lost, and how old they were? I live pretty close to there, and I think it was only 3 or 4 houses lost, and they weren't actually the oldest ones, but I could be wrong. Anyway, most of Phineas is still there today, and unaffected by the construction.

Here are my photos of the south side of Phineas (now demolished), which included several mid-19th century homes. I think this part of East Allegheny was plotted in the 1830s or 1840s, so the oldest houses would've probably dated from that era.

Discovering Historic Pittsburgh: RIP: Phineas Street (North Side)

You probably know this, but one of the very oldest houses in East Allegheny is the one closest to Chestnut on Phineas, right across from the Teutonia Maennerchor. The Maennerchor actually owns it, and the rumor is they hope to restore it and make it a tiny local museum some day. I'm really very glad about that; it would be great to have it saved and opened to the public.

I hope they restore it. There are a few other houses that I believe may also date to the 1830s or 1840s in the neighborhood. They are very modest, small frame houses. There are a few on Peralta. Many have been renovated, but you can usually make a guess at the age of these houses based on their scale and shape.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

I hope they restore it. There are a few other houses that I believe may also date to the 1830s or 1840s in the neighborhood. They are very modest, small frame houses. There are a few on Peralta. Many have been renovated, but you can usually make a guess at the age of these houses based on their scale and shape.

Indeed. The way I always pick them out is the floor heights are so much smaller they almost look like "hobbit houses" compared to the Victorians interspersed with them. For example, check out this house on Columbus Avenue. Despite being two story, the top of the second story is only around 1/3rd of the way up the second story of the buildings on either side. I don't know the exact age of the house, but it was already on maps in 1862, and is likely at least 10-15 years older than that.

[RogersParkTransplant]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

Here are my photos of the south side of Phineas (now demolished), which included several mid-19th century homes. I think this part of East Allegheny was plotted in the 1830s or 1840s, so the oldest houses would've probably dated from that era.

Discovering Historic Pittsburgh: RIP: Phineas Street (North Side)

Thanks for re-posting this; it's really helpful. I'm noticing that Google maps also still has their photos from summer 2014 online, so one can see these structures from a few different angles.

I honestly think about half the buildings in these photographs are still standing. The ones closest to 279 are definitely gone, and I think the two on Guckert are lost too, but I believe the ones closer to Teutonia Maennerchor are still there. I'll swing by in the next few days to check, and will post a few pictures to show you what I mean.

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Indeed. The way I always pick them out is the floor heights are so much smaller they almost look like "hobbit houses" compared to the Victorians interspersed with them. For example, check out this house on Columbus Avenue. Despite being two story, the top of the second story is only around 1/3rd of the way up the second story of the buildings on either side. I don't know the exact age of the house, but it was already on maps in 1862, and is likely at least 10-15 years older than that.

Yes, the height of the houses and also the setback from the street are two possible ways to make educated guesses. I also look at the amount of ornamentation, windows, doors, etc., and I consult the maps.

Some of the houses on Peralta appear to be super old, particularly the little frame house and the two modest brick homes on the right: https://goo.gl/maps/1ymAQCUoEf42

I've always admired this one on Peralta, too, which retains its original front door: https://goo.gl/maps/pnyKDpknAmR2

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by RogersParkTransplant

I honestly think about half the buildings in these photographs are still standing. The ones closest to 279 are definitely gone, and I think the two on Guckert are lost too, but I believe the ones closer to Teutonia Maennerchor are still there. I'll swing by in the next few days to check, and will post a few pictures to show you what I mean.

I hope you're right about some still standing. It is very hard for me to go to this neighborhood (and Spring Garden) because some of my favorite old houses are constantly disappearing, or further deteriorating.. I feel the same way about Wheeling, WV, and sections of McKeesport. Every time I drive through the very old neighborhoods, another beautiful vacant house (that I dreamed of restoring) is gone...and the historic urban fabric forever damaged by its absence. I will never get over the demolition of 841 Suismon. I had the opportunity to buy it, but not the resources or money to fix it at the time (2011), and calling attention to it on my blog numerous times was not enough to find a new owner before the bulldozers came.. There was also a house on a particularly blighted stretch of Evans Avenue in McKeesport that I just loved; a small frame house from the 1880s. Unfortunately, a couple windows were broken and a neighbor turned it into the city, and they promptly demolished it. This was in spite of my plea to them to let me acquire it and restore it through the city's vacant property program. Nope. I am just lucky that I had the money to buy the Woods Run house when the opportunity came. I had my eye on it for years, and it would not have survived if I had not purchased it. The neighbor wanted to demolish it for a garage.

[eschaton]

IIRC the only houses October Development didn't buy out on the South side of Phineas are the red brick house with the Italianate finishing (which was the nicest on that block) and the alley house behind it. They also didn't manage to acquire one of the vacant lots next to this house. The remaining houses may or may not have been demolished, but any surviving will be knocked down once development of the new hotel/apartment complex begins.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The remaining houses may or may not have been demolished, but any surviving will be knocked down once development of the new hotel/apartment complex begins.

Maybe, or maybe not.


Depending on how the plan comes together, the new development could build around it---like they built the Trimont on Mt. Wash basically wrapped around the beer distributor at Grandview & Plymouth, the only old building left on the block.