Attempt to catagorize official Pittsburgh neighborhoods (Map) (McKeesport, West Mifflin: credit, homes)

[interested_burgher]

Originally Posted by steindle

So what do you think is going to happen to neighborhoods currently on a steady ascent (e.g., Lawrenceville)? What do you make of the recent (speculated) increases in population? What do you make of property values going up steadily in comparison to the rest of the country? Increases in job numbers in the core city? The general national trend of suburban youth heading back into the cities in their 20s? The effect of rising gas prices?



I'd honestly prefer that people who (a) obsess about parking to the point that they will forego the cultural and social pluses of the urban environment because they can't find somewhere to put their vehicle ; and (b) blithely compare the price of parking to sexual assault, would stay out of the city anyway.



This has been debated on this forum a million times. Yes, there are some terrible public schools. There are also Pittsburgh Public Schools that outstrip their suburban peers in any number of categories. Why is it impossibly hard to get people to widen their frames of reference on this forum? It's a very simple concept to understand.

I would hope property values would increase at some point. If you move from here to any other place in the country, you'll lose money. If you move from a place like Boston to here, you can retire 10 years earlier.

Population has declined here for so long, I would hope there'd be a speculated increase.

The Pittsburgh Public schools as a whole are terrible. You have schools like Carrick high school with a 50 percent dropout rate. 50 percent!

Suburban youth in their 20's are heading back to cities, because they can't find jobs to make enough money nowadays to afford to live in the suburbs.

As far as parking goes, there's literally a paved city block with nothing but asphalt on it in the South Side by the Hofbrau House. As far as I can tell, it is used for special events about 1% of the year, maybe. It is roped off so that nobody can park there, EVER! Instead, people have to circle around, looking to squeeze into spots with meters or be ultimately forced into the parking garage where they have to waste time more time driving around, finding the machine to pay, etc. There's an empty paved city block right across the freakin' street! Let people park there and pay one of those 20 somethings, who can't find a job to pay off their student loans, to man a gate and collect a fee!

The site where the Civic Arena is being demolished should be used for another parking garage. Leaving an event at Consol Energy center is like an hour long process, because everyone is jammed in the one garage across the street!

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Brookline_sylvia

Thanks for all the hard work eschaton. I just got the crazy idea to (one day when I have a lot of time) to develop a similar map but rate each neighborhood by owner-occupied homes, e.g., purple > n%, etc. and see how it corresponds to what you have there. Then I started looking at the Neighborhood Rankings section of http://www.pittsburghpa.gov/dcp/snap...0_Oct_2011.pdf and got overwhelmed with all the measurements. Maybe assigned a weighted value to each category and then average it all to see how the neighborhoods statistically measure up in a visual map.

I've done this before. It's much easier now there is a Google Doc. It doesn't show exactly what you would think. See this map

The darker the color, the higher the level of home ownership. As you can see, there's no correlation with income at all. Some wealthy neighborhoods have very low home ownership rates (Shadyside - 29.5%, Allegheny West, 18.2%). On the other hand, some very poor neighborhoods have high levels of home ownership (Beltzhoover - 73.5%). Some of the contrasts are a bit funny. There are more homeowners in Homewood South than Point Breeze North. More in South Side Slopes than South Side Flats. More in Beltzhoover than Mount Washington. More (slightly) in California Kirkbride than Central Northside.

In general, it seems like high levels of home ownership correspond with very traditional/suburban neighborhoods, while low levels are associated with neighborhoods with either housing projects or students/young people.

It does need to be said, however, I'm not sure about the veracity of this data. I'm guessing it's based upon how many people in a neighborhood take the homestead exemption. This can under-estimate homeowners, as I've noticed areas like Central Northside (trawling the assessor's website) there's a lot of people who don't take the exemption, but have their billing address listed as the property.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by interested_burgher

Suburban youth in their 20's are heading back to cities, because they can't find jobs to make enough money nowadays to afford to live in the suburbs.

Please, stop with this crap. I'm in my early 30s now, and have a two-year-old child I will enroll in PPS. While I wouldn't mind living in a little river town like Millvale, I'd rather blow my brains out than move to somewhere like the Connecticut suburban town I grew up in. But we have a combined income of nearly $90,000 now, so we certainly could afford to live somewhere else if we wanted. We don't.

Originally Posted by interested_burgher

The site where the Civic Arena is being demolished should be used for another parking garage. Leaving an event at Consol Energy center is like an hour long process, because everyone is jammed in the one garage across the street!

I don't mean to sound hostile, but given you apparently think the only use for the city is to be a glorified parking area for you to be able to drive into with ease, why do you think your opinion matters more than the many residents who, you know, are actually living here, have their children in the schools, and are willing to pay the city taxes?

[ferraris]

I'm really surprised to see that Allegheny West has such a low rate of home ownership. There are hardly any true apartment buildings, and those that do exist are quite old. I would have thought that all of the well kept homes of the neighborhood were due to owner occupancy. It's impressive that landlords are taking such good care of their properties. I wonder if many of them are multi-unit homes, where the landlord lives on site, and thus has more motivation to keep up the looks of the property. It could just be good landlords though; my Mexican War Streets landlord actually lives in Fox Chapel, but he's excellent about keeping up the appearance of my building both inside and out.

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by interested_burgher

Suburban youth in their 20's are heading back to cities, because they can't find jobs to make enough money nowadays to afford to live in the suburbs.

I think the suburban youth are moving to the cities for more reasons than jobs. I think they are moving to the cities, because that's where there are other young people, nightlife, and a more happening scene in general. It doesn't even matter what city you are close to -- there are probably more young people out in the city than the suburbs. I don't know anyone my age who goes out in Robinson, Monroeville, or McKnight Road.

[ferraris]

The whole premise is wrong, too. Suburban apartments are generally cheaper than apartments in the sorts of city neighborhoods that attract young people.

[interested_burgher]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Please, stop with this crap. I'm in my early 30s now, and have a two-year-old child I will enroll in PPS. While I wouldn't mind living in a little river town like Millvale, I'd rather blow my brains out than move to somewhere like the Connecticut suburban town I grew up in. But we have a combined income of nearly $90,000 now, so we certainly could afford to live somewhere else if we wanted. We don't.



I don't mean to sound hostile, but given you apparently think the only use for the city is to be a glorified parking area for you to be able to drive into with ease, why do you think your opinion matters more than the many residents who, you know, are actually living here, have their children in the schools, and are willing to pay the city taxes?

Whatever. I don't care how much money you make, where you live, or where you plan on sending your kid to school. I speak from personal experience. I attended that mess of a school system before my parents had the foresight to move. Sorry you disagree my assessment.

You're the one who replies to not only each point you disagree with, but each sentence. You've got way too much time on your hands apparently.

People don't like mass transit. That's why people continue to buy cars, and PAT can't sustain itself. Intentionally making it difficult for people to park their cars is not a pro-growth policy. The casino understands that. Their business is through the roof.

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by interested_burgher

If you think making it difficult for people to park in the city is going to lead to growth in the city, you're out of your mind.

You get people to come to city by having attractions in the city, not parking. Nobody goes to the city to park -- they go to the city because there are things to see and do there. If nothing else, there is interesting architecture in cities. Nobody wants to look at parking garages. If you go somewhere like Lansing or Fort Wayne, or even right in our own town (Allegheny Center, anyone?), you can see evidence of failed urban renewal attempts that paved parking lots over history. Those places are dead zones now. The places with any activity are the places with urban density and actual streetscapes, buildings, and things to walk to. Look at downtown McKeesport. It's all parking, but who wants to go there?

[interested_burgher]

Originally Posted by alleghenyangel

You get people to come to city by having attractions in the city, not parking. Nobody goes to the city to park -- they go to the city because there are things to see and do there. If nothing else, there is interesting architecture in cities. Nobody wants to look at parking garages. If you go somewhere like Lansing or Fort Wayne, or even right in our own town (Allegheny Center, anyone?), you can see evidence of failed urban renewal attempts that paved parking lots over history. Those places are dead zones now. The places with any activity are the places with urban density and actual streetscapes, buildings, and things to walk to. Look at downtown McKeesport. It's all parking, but who wants to go there?

You're completely missing the point. If you want to sell something, make it easier and more convenient for your customers. That is all I'm saying.

[steindle]

Originally Posted by interested_burgher

The Pittsburgh Public schools as a whole are terrible. You have schools like Carrick high school with a 50 percent dropout rate. 50 percent!

Suburban youth in their 20's are heading back to cities, because they can't find jobs to make enough money nowadays to afford to live in the suburbs.

As far as parking goes, [etc.]

You just sound incredibly out of touch to me. No use arguing.