Attempt to catagorize official Pittsburgh neighborhoods (Map) (Liberty, Oakland: crime, attorneys)

[PreservationPioneer]

McKees Rocks -- Red
Stowe Township -- Pink

[interested_burgher]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Yellow means neighborhoods, which, while depressed, show some signs of life - basically "gentrification candidates." I think there's enough activity along Penn to put Garfield on this rung now.

And yes, I'm fully aware about how the residential heart of Garfield is doing. I just drove through it yesterday. East Liberty only had development along the fringes a decade ago too. Has to start somewhere.

I would hardly consider Garfield in better position than Carrick for instance. While Carrick has some crime issues, Garfield is a disaster. Plans for a couple new storefronts on a few blocks of Penn aren't going to chase away the gang infrastructure in Garfield. Most of those people aren't in big projects that can be closed down all at once and the residents shipped across town.

You mention East Liberty. Northern East Liberty is turning into a war zone in early 2012. It's lucky to only have 2 homicides so far this year.

[escilade18]

I would put Churchill at Green currently with the risk of slipping into pink due to the horrible school district they are in. I think that it can go one of two ways as many people who are priced out of city neighborhoods like East Liberty head to the suburbs

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by interested_burgher

I would hardly consider Garfield in better position than Carrick for instance. While Carrick has some crime issues, Garfield is a disaster. Plans for a couple new storefronts on a few blocks of Penn aren't going to chase away the gang infrastructure in Garfield. Most of those people aren't in big projects that can be closed down all at once and the residents shipped across town.

That may actually be a strength. Private landlord's can raise rents with a lot less public uproar than if the city were closing down a housing project. Increased demand may also convince some landlords to cash out and just sell the place, too. Garfield has a good deal of abandoned houses, as those are fixed up the neighborhood will become nicer. The Bloomfield Garfield Corporation has also been instrumental in building dozens of new homes in the past decade.

There are signs of improvement even in the interior of Garfield. Two blocks of Kincaid are nearly entirely new homes under construction right now. There are newly renovated homes on North Fairmount. That's in addition to some already existing new/rehabbed construction in the neighborhood. No doubt that there's still plenty of blight, but it definitely has signs of life.

You mention East Liberty. Northern East Liberty is turning into a war zone in early 2012. It's lucky to only have 2 homicides so far this year.

Whether or not all of us are comfortable living or being in East Liberty is irrelevant. There are enough people who are comfortable in East Liberty and even find it desirable, that's why property values are exploding. Many of the people who are afraid of East Liberty may not even be able to afford to live there!

Originally Posted by eschaton

I actually had Fineview as level 1 gentrification on the first draft I was working on. Unlike the rest of the outer North Side, the average income actually edged up a bit, even adjusted for inflation. I'm not aware of any active gentrification there, but it would make sense that one of the Northside hilltop neighborhoods would pull through.

I think Fineview is very well poised. It's not plagued by crime, has some great views, lots of charm, and some relatively large lots for being so close to downtown. But what I think will tip it over the edge is when the Garden Theater Block and Federal Street really start to take off as a destination spot, and not just a neighborhood business district. Compared to Troy Hill and Spring Hill, Fineview is a much more comfortable walk up and down. The walk from the Garden Theater Block to Fineview Playground (well into the neighborhood) is only about 15-20 minutes, and it's not all that arduous.

If the T is ever extended up to Federal & North (or further), then Fineview's property values will explode. But even without the T, I think it is in a good position. The 11 Fineview bus is a pretty sorry route, though. It's a long ride looping through the neighborhood and doesn't run very often.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by interested_burgher

I would hardly consider Garfield in better position than Carrick for instance. While Carrick has some crime issues, Garfield is a disaster. Plans for a couple new storefronts on a few blocks of Penn aren't going to chase away the gang infrastructure in Garfield. Most of those people aren't in big projects that can be closed down all at once and the residents shipped across town.

You mention East Liberty. Northern East Liberty is turning into a war zone in early 2012. It's lucky to only have 2 homicides so far this year.

The coding considers two things - how good a neighborhood is, and whether it is improving or not. Carrick might be a better neighborhood overall than Garfield, but it's clearly on its way down pretty rapidly, while Garfield at least is showing some signs of revival. And whatever you think of East Liberty, it's pretty clear that major gentrification is beginning there.

[eschaton]

Here's another update. While it's somehow beyond inkscape to allow for colored diagonal lines, I can utilize color gradients, which I have in a few neighborhoods where there are big splits like:

Bloomfield (half heavily gentrified, half stable)
East Allegheny (half heavily gentrified, half in decline)
Brighton Heights (half stable, half in severe decline)

And so on.

[Uptown kid]

Ok thanks, you thoroughly explained your/thoughts on my last couple questions. This is a very good map. I like the changes to parts of neighborhoods, ideas: Glenwood green or pink, HoodTown a shade of blue like East Liberty, rest of Central Northside to West Dutchtowns color, change East Lib North of the Bvld to yellow, southern Highland Park to pink, northern Highland Park to purple... Though those are just suggestions, and since you can do parts of neighborhoods you could add the inner ring suburbs if u wanted to.

[quote]In both cases, property values are rising, and the Bedford Hill redevelopment is at least making a material difference in the neighborhood. In addition, while pretty unsafe, they're both safer areas than Homewood or Larimer these days.[quote]

Last thing... IMO I think your over hyping Bedford Dwellings & Middle Hill
Addison Terrace is set to be reconstructed, emptied out, and turned in to mixed income housing probably leaving Terrace Village to just a few streets and Oak Hill (which is currently safe & livable). This will make Bedford Dwellings & Middle the worst two neighborhoods in the Hill District.
Since 2008 Homewood's had 27 or so homicides (Homewood South/North/West) including 5 last year.
Since 2008 the Hill's had 33 or so homicides (Terrace Village/Bedford Dwellings/Middle Hill/Craword Roberts) including 11 last year (SW PA's murder capitol last year)... Only reason most people in this city think Homewood's worse than the Hill is because the gang banging is/always been far more deep seeded in Homewood. I think the Hill's a couple spots rougher than Larimer too.

Note the list of AGH's roughest areas from my crime map
Very, Very Bad! High element of deep seeded gang activity which is present to everyone in Pittsburgh.
Homewood South
Homewood North (especially Molher Projects)
Homewood West
What's left of Terrace Village (excluding Oak Hill)
Bedford Dwellings (especially Chauncey Drive)
Middle Hill
Northview Heights
Allegheny Dwellings Projects, Fineview
Most of Duquesne, PA (south of train tracks/Parkview Estates)
Most of the East Hills (mainly Wilner, Park Hills & East Hills Drive Projects)
Larimer (especially the Auburn Projects)
Parts of Wilkinsburg, PA (Central Wilkinsburg= Franklin, Park Triangle, Hunter Park, the High School Area, Princeton Park & part of Sperling)
Most of McKeesport, PA (central area= the wards from downtown/the river to North Grandview Avenue/Patterson Street)
Knoxville (especially Upper Knoxville)
Beltzhoover
Most of Mt. Oliver, PA (Mt Oliver Borough)

Also, Bedford Hills might be adding a bit more overall income, professionals, better living families, but not safety! It's largely gang affiliated with the WebsterAve-Bedford Ave Bloods & there were even a couple shootings over there (including a fatal one). It's pretty much took the place of the Bedford Dwellings projects/vacant lots that superseded it. It may not be the slumz, but it's currently the clear cut worst mixed income housing complex (even over Garfield Commons & Myers Ridge Apartments) in Pittsburgh.

[ferraris]

I'm pretty sure you made a mistake on East Deutschtown (or I'm reading the map wrong). It definitely doesn't belong in the purple category.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday

I'm pretty sure you made a mistake on East Deutschtown (or I'm reading the map wrong). It definitely doesn't belong in the purple category.

Hrrm...there seems to have been a conversion problem going from SVG to PNG. It's meant to be half pink and half blue.

Edit: I see the problem. The color that I was using which looked pink on the screen was partially transparent red. When converted to a bitmap, this didn't work for obvious reasons. Here's the fixed map.

[interested_burgher]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The coding considers two things - how good a neighborhood is, and whether it is improving or not. Carrick might be a better neighborhood overall than Garfield, but it's clearly on its way down pretty rapidly, while Garfield at least is showing some signs of revival. And whatever you think of East Liberty, it's pretty clear that major gentrification is beginning there.

I'm not saying Carrick is paradise, but it's nowhere near as bad as Garfield. These minimal traces of revival in Garfield you speak of are exactly that, minimal, and will be confined to a couple blocks on Penn if anything substantial even happens. Nothing will branch off from that. There's not going to be the business development there that East Liberty has had......nowhere close.

I understand that money has been put into East Liberty, but it is still plagued by enough crime that a lot of people will avoid it.

Even Shadyside has had a heck of a lot more burglaries and robberies in the last year or two than it did ten years ago. The East Liberty development seems to be pushing the boundaries of petty crime to areas where that used to be considered completely safe. So in actuality, targeted development in a smaller area is expanding the scope of crime to a ring around it, yet including it. The bad element is still there, except it's less openly visible because it's less concentrated. But rest assured, it's still there. What happens in 20 years when the new development is old? Remember, these neighborhoods are not municipal borders with distinct police forces for each neighborhood. With the exception of Wilkinsburg and parts of Penn Hills, the city of Pittsburgh law enforcement still has to cover it all with less resources than they used to have.

And with the city of Pittsburgh showing no signs of reigning in their budgets and/or lowering taxes, even more people will avoid it.

Whatever, this is pointless. Neither one of us is going to change the other's mind. You're an East end apologist. I'm a realist.