People who hate the speed cameras... (Scottsdale: crime, buy, cabinet)

[poprocks33]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

I haven't been able to chime back in until now but listen...

The cameras are 100% for revenue, there is no denying that. However, I do think that people driving slower is a byproduct. I know for myself personally that now I drive no more then 7-8 miles over the speed limit, and not just where I know there are cameras, but everywhere because the mobile units are out there too.

People seem so pissed off that it's for revenue...but it's not like it's the only thing out there that generates revenue and does not affect safety. Think about parking meters as an example...they generate revenue and what other purpose do they serve? Why aren't people yelling and screaming about those?

Apples and oranges. Parking meter fees buy you goods (albeit intangible ones). The photo radar is a thinly-veiled tax, and it's more aggravating because of its sanctimonious "safety first!" attitude which is eagerly gobbled up by the masses. This is no more about safety than McDonald's is about health food. I would find less offense with an honest increase in taxes to all.

[HX_Guy]

What good do they buy you...a parking space? Sure, if you look at it from that angle...but you can also look at it as a tax that doesn't need to be there.

I mean would you be ok with there being a toll to use the freeway and then them saying you're buying goods (use of the road)? You could look at the speed cameras like that then...it's $250 of goods (you're buying being able to drive 80 MPH).

[Finger Laker]

i'd be much more accepting of a toll on a freeway then I would these lousy cameras

and yes - a parking space is a service which you are paying for - meters are often found in places where there is not an abundance of parking, let alone free parking, so that piece of parking real estate has intrinsic value

i don't like metered spots and rarely park at them, but when I do it's a decision I make, the machines are maintained by public authority, i fully understand the rules and have a legit ticket served to me on site that I can then defend myself against in court against an actual government employee who cited me

also you will note that these machines also malfunction - however, people have been able to contest tickets and win when they believe they've been wronged

also the ticket is much less severe to individuals

[deckdoc]

Ib got a good answer on how to keep the lawbreakers off of the freeways here in Phoenix and do away with the cameras you are all complaining about!

Just post snipers on the overpasses and shoot every driver going over the limit!

After a few days I'm sure that those lawbreakers will start to obey the laws or they will be off the freeways and the freeways will start to be safe for law abiding drivers~ at that time the snipers can be kept occupied getting rid of tailgaters and those that weave back and forth in the road!

I'll bet after several weeks the amout of lawbreakers around Phoenix would drop dramatically because the ones that break the laws on the hiways tend to be the ones that also feel they can break other laws including burglary and murder etc!

[stilldirrty]

I've been caught by the "Camera vehicle" and you know what. I take responcibility for it. I stopped speeding. Use safe judgement. Stop blaming the law, that YOU broke the law by speeding. Its your own fault.

[Finger Laker]

so everyone opposed is law breaking speeders?!

it's that kind of deep thought that leads us to having our rights trampled on

[deckdoc]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

so everyone opposed is law breaking speeders?!

it's that kind of deep thought that leads us to having our rights trampled on

I'm sure you are opposed to law breakers too~ if not I don't want to hear you cry when someone steals your car and your money~ rapes your wife and daughter~ burns down your house~ and hooks you behind a car with a chain and drags you down the freeway~ a lawbreaker is a lawbreaker and should be looked on as such!

[Fighter 1]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

I've got a question...

If each speed camera was replaced by a live police officer, would you be ok with that? Do you really feel that it's unfair that you can't fight the ticket in court?

This is just me...but I have a feeling people use that excuse because they know the city could never deploy that many cops to just traffic duty, and even if they do, they know that officers let you slide every now and then, but that still doesn't change the fact that you were speeding. I feel I can speak on this because I've had literally 15+ speeding tickets in my years of driving...and I've been let off quite a few times, but the times I haven't, I've never once been able to win in court aside from the office not showing up on one occasion.

I'm not trying to justify the cameras, I think they are a pain in the ass...but I do think it's 100% the driver's fault. I mean it's simple, if you don't go over 10 MPH above the speed limit, then you won't get caught. Pretty cut and dry. It's not like they don't give you any leeway, they give about a 20% above the limit leeway. (And I don't believe when people say they got caught going 7 MPH...I'd have to see the citation to believe that. Going by your own judgment of course you're going to be bias)

WHAT DO YOU MEAN you can't fight them in court PLEASE check out the 3 add's below your post. then tell me you can't fight!

[Finger Laker]

Originally Posted by deckdoc

I'm sure you are opposed to law breakers too~ if not I don't want to hear you cry when someone steals your car and your money~ rapes your wife and daughter~ burns down your house~ and hooks you behind a car with a chain and drags you down the freeway~ a lawbreaker is a lawbreaker and should be looked on as such!

are you for real?!

yes - I am opposed to law breakers - I'm also opposed to elected officials who scoff at things like due process and an electorate that is too apathetic to do anything about it

because I think farming out enforcement of codes to a private enterprise, circumventing due process and putting in a revenue generating ponzi scheme while creating the red herring of "public safety" to get the masses distracted is something that our elected officials should be held accountable for; it automatically means I should be cool with someone raping family (or anyone for that matter?!)

so I repeat, are you for real?!

[joninaz]

The parking meter analogy is a little thin. The meter itself is a mechanical device/tool that takes a measurement. It doesn't issue a ticket or declare you a lawbreaker. That still falls under the jursidiction of the human ticket writer who is empowered to make a situational judgement call, the same as a police officer has when dealing with potential moving violations.

The cameras are not a tool of law enforcement people, but have in fact replaced them. Somehow we've made a profound leap in legal philosophy whereby technology can now be the sole accuser... and people really need to think about that fact. Our founders thought it was pretty important to make a constitutional amendment describing one's right to face their accuser. So how does one put a camera van on the stand and ask some questions?

And in how many other ways are we fine with letting computer chips and software summon us to court? Would it be OK if all cars sold were mandated to have a chip installed that issued tickets for every violation? The technology is already there. Or you cool with cameras recording your every move throughout the day? Britons now have 5 million of them.

I know a lot of people hate the idiots we encounter on the roads, but how do you balance that with a fundamental shift in our freedoms, rights and systems of justice? And have we really exhausted looking at all options before conceding to the robo-solution? Why not empower a traffic enforcement division whose sole jurisdisction is the roads and let the higher skilled law enforcement folks concentrate on other crimes?